Greyscale Racing MRCG

[XMDrifter]

it's definitely true that mass production makes costs go down, but really, who has the money to make 1000 copies of the chassis in one order?

[color0]

XXX, You are right and not quite right all in the same line. If you feel like reading my thought process, please continue, but if not, save yourself the eyestrain because it's lengthy.

Our original pricing was for $129.99 because it was necessary to offset the costs of making all the parts in the USA (Penguin RC and Exotek Racing). But with delays and that pricing problem -- I didn't like it either! -- I said screw it and went with PN Racing to help me make the chassis, which brings us down to the current chassis-only price of $109.99. And I'm barely breaking even.

Consider 1/12 pan cars: they sell for $250 because people are willing to spend on a machine that handles great, looks great, and can win races. Because the MRCG's tiny, though, customers expect the cost to scale down. Not so. 1/12 pan cars don't cost much more than an MRCG to produce. Smaller parts are harder and more expensive to manufacture. And take a look at the dNano, which is 1/43, has a plastic chassis, and is barely more than half the size of the MRCG. It costs about $250 (!) to get one running. It's also produced in a very small batch, which 1) hikes up manufacturing costs and 2) hikes up the "exclusivity factor". The MRCG is in the exact same situation, which is why it sells for $109.99.

Though you may not think so, there are plenty of people who consider the MRCG an absolute steal. The TGR Sinister (a pan chassis from last year) costs about $95 but requires hours of modification before it can even drive properly. The Pro-Z V8 costs $130, and the InZane P28 (Europe's premier pan chassis) costs a healthy $160 for the same chassis-only package. None of those chassis can compete with mine on RCP, which makes the $110 MRCG worth it for my target customers.

Plus, RC Driver -- possibly THE most widely read RC magazine -- is reviewing the MRCG. And if it's a positive review, then there are plenty of people out there who want the latest cool thing and will spend the money to get it. And then, (please forgive me for being overly blunt) I really don't need to care if one or two people think it's too expensive.


So to sum it up, 1) There's not much room to push down the price, 2) the current price is a good place to be, and 3) I actually don't need to worry about sales, as long as I think for the longer term.

[torredo]

easiest way to say it color0.....try and make your own custom stuff and see what it looks like, how much it costs and the time put into it. Then you may appreciate a product costing 150.00 such as the MRCG chassis. Ive made my own custom clodcrawler, custom Xmod chassis, etc.... and understand what it takes to make something from scratch to only realize a true product made under CNC or such is much nicer to look at if your looking for the customization aswell as the bling factor.

way to go buddie! i love the mrcg and see NO problem with the cost you slapped on it.

[TripleXmodder(akaXXX)]

Originally Posted by color0

XXX, You are right and not quite right all in the same line. If you feel like reading my thought process, please continue, but if not, save yourself the eyestrain because it's lengthy.

Our original pricing was for $129.99 because it was necessary to offset the costs of making all the parts in the USA (Penguin RC and Exotek Racing). But with delays and that pricing problem -- I didn't like it either! -- I said screw it and went with PN Racing to help me make the chassis, which brings us down to the current chassis-only price of $109.99. And I'm barely breaking even.

Consider 1/12 pan cars: they sell for $250 because people are willing to spend on a machine that handles great, looks great, and can win races. Because the MRCG's tiny, though, customers expect the cost to scale down. Not so. 1/12 pan cars don't cost much more than an MRCG to produce. Smaller parts are harder and more expensive to manufacture. And take a look at the dNano, which is 1/43, has a plastic chassis, and is barely more than half the size of the MRCG. It costs about $250 (!) to get one running. It's also produced in a very small batch, which 1) hikes up manufacturing costs and 2) hikes up the "exclusivity factor". The MRCG is in the exact same situation, which is why it sells for $109.99.

Though you may not think so, there are plenty of people who consider the MRCG an absolute steal. The TGR Sinister (a pan chassis from last year) costs about $95 but requires hours of modification before it can even drive properly. The Pro-Z V8 costs $130, and the InZane P28 (Europe's premier pan chassis) costs a healthy $160 for the same chassis-only package. None of those chassis can compete with mine on RCP, which makes the $110 MRCG worth it for my target customers.

Plus, RC Driver -- possibly THE most widely read RC magazine -- is reviewing the MRCG. And if it's a positive review, then there are plenty of people out there who want the latest cool thing and will spend the money to get it. And then, (please forgive me for being overly blunt) I really don't need to care if one or two people think it's too expensive.


So to sum it up, 1) There's not much room to push down the price, 2) the current price is a good place to be, and 3) I actually don't need to worry about sales, as long as I think for the longer term.

I agree. like i said I understand why it is so expensive, and I hope your product does very well. Its just at the 1/28 scale the market isnt as big as for a sinister or somthing. The only real good market at this scale is slot cars. So I think it will be harder to sell at the higher cost. What I think you should do is invest in a cnc machine. You can get a smaller good setup for around 600$-700$ and you could cut them yourself instead of paying larger manufacturing costs. You would be able to drop your retail price by as much as 30-40% and still get similiar profits. THAT would be the best thing to do. Again it is a great product but I think there is more then 1 or 2 people who think it is expensive. Good luck, and i hope to have a MRCG chassis on one of my cars one day.

[c1v1c]

Originally Posted by TripleXmodder(akaXXX)

I agree. like i said I understand why it is so expensive, and I hope your product does very well. Its just at the 1/28 scale the market isnt as big as for a sinister or somthing. The only real good market at this scale is slot cars. So I think it will be harder to sell at the higher cost. What I think you should do is invest in a cnc machine. You can get a smaller good setup for around 600$-700$ and you could cut them yourself instead of paying larger manufacturing costs. You would be able to drop your retail price by as much as 30-40% and still get similiar profits. THAT would be the best thing to do. Again it is a great product but I think there is more then 1 or 2 people who think it is expensive. Good luck, and i hope to have a MRCG chassis on one of my cars one day.

Sinister is 1/28th scale

[XMDrifter]

lol 3X, you do realize that the 1:28th scale has a huge market. if it didn't have a big market, then why would kyosho still release more mini-zs and rc driver review color0's MRCG? and iwaver is coming out with an iwaver awd, HFAY is releasing more stuff, PN just keeps going, etc.
you really think the 1:28 market is that small?

[TripleXmodder(akaXXX)]

Originally Posted by XMDrifter

lol 3X, you do realize that the 1:28th scale has a huge market. if it didn't have a big market, then why would kyosho still release more mini-zs and rc driver review color0's MRCG? and iwaver is coming out with an iwaver awd, HFAY is releasing more stuff, PN just keeps going, etc.
you really think the 1:28 market is that small?

k if you think 1/28 has a large market you need to go back to school. They do have a market but it is the smallest of all the scales. Even slot car has a largermarket. Just go to your local tc hobby shops. The only major common known car is a minis. Iwavers and all those other knock offs don't even come close to a pro car. The SMALL 1/28 market mostly consists of body nodding. I have and run all scale electric and gas rc. Again your crazy to think that 1/28 has a large market.

&&& I'm not bashing color0. I am just giving some advice. From someone who does slot of manufacturing and I have a degree to back that up. I hope he succeeds and I love his product and want it to go well. 1/28 has a LARGE market is the craziest thing I ever heard. Be polite in your criticisms, it helps no one.

[color0]

I now know that you've never even followed my project. I did invest in a CNC mill. But a $600-700 CNC machine is useless for fast and/or precise work; those are for normal hobbyists wanting to learn CNC for cheap. The cheapest usable mills run about $1k, then adding precision upgrades brings you to $2k, and the CNC setup brings the total to $3k. I bought my setup with a student discount but it still cost me $2k. I already saved 30-40% of my costs because all the work I've done would've totaled well over $4k if I had gone with another CNC company.

TinyRC doesn't make a lot of money with their $50 Xmod CF chassis, I know because I talk to the owner a lot nowadays. Atomicmods makes a bit more with their Stiletto because it's aluminum, but still not a lot. But neither chassis has any 3D machined parts. The MRCG has four of those, plus four custom-machined standoffs (do you see any on your Xmods' chassis?) on top of the carbon fiber, and on top of that I threw in a complete disk damper setup, so asking for a 30-40% cut off from the current price is like asking for a $30 quality CF chassis for your Xmod. I doubt it will happen, because the CF plate you need for one costs $28 shipped.



Although 1/28 is not as huge as XMD would make it out to be, it's certainly on the radar, and I'm quite sure it's bigger than slot cars. I only found a few slot car shops/tracks on Google, but they're by far outnumbered by Mini-Z shops/tracks. Especially in Asia, slot cars are extinct. The "hobby streets" with lots of shops and tracks all cater towards Mini-Z, 1/18 and 1/10. Tamiyas of all scales are also very hot over there.

[TripleXmodder(akaXXX)]

obviously your taking offense to my posts so I'll just leave it at that. Again good luck with the endever.

[color0]

Thanks, I was. I don't want to go any further with this either because I know I sound like I'm flaming you and honestly don't mean to do that. I just can't understand where you're coming from because I have been DEALING with the pricing/manufacturing issue on a personal level for the last 9 months. And although I can't say I'm a good businessman, I can say that I know all the numbers and the necessary costs, and they are not as optimistic as you would like them to be.

---------------------------------------------------

I got a treat tonight, T.O.P. Racing driver EJ Evans test drove my car and liked a lot once we changed some settings. Within 5 laps he was actually driving as well as I was, and I'd been driving seriously clean lines and fast laps. Both of us were very impressed.

Later on my rear tires faded and so flinging the car into a corner with EJ's settings resulted in a nice little drift. I'd occasionally spin out on the sweeper, but otherwise I could get around basically every corner with a controlled powerslide. I wasn't much slower than before, and had lots of fun for the last hour of my track time. Take this observation how you will, I know Texan always wanted to drift an MRCG and I've almost done it with an earlier prototype. Seriously good fun, though hard and the setup is always finicky.

Anyways: Inside Line Racing changed their layout, it's now very fast and flowing, and it's going to be more about the car than the driver. Looks like my car has the right setup to win tomorrow because I had plenty of corner speed tonight.

[torredo]

i dont see anything wrong with what your doin Color0?
i dont think your a bad businisman imho. that would mean youd be looking the other way.

[color0]

I know what you mean by that, when you have to fix minor but crucial defects it can be quite frustrating. But the customer is [almost] always right, lol, and I need to make sure my product is good for their sake.

-----------------------------------

My new old GSR-liveried Lexus SC430. I've had this shell for a while, I put it away to test the 350Z. I think I like it better than the 350Z though since it has more aggressive handling and can take the inside line from almost anybody.



It also puts me about 15% underweight compared to the Mini-Z's (usually around 190g), which makes this car corner just so wonderfully.

[texan_idiot25]

Pure awesome. How have sales been man?

I swear, to the gods of the 1/28th, drifting cop car will some day come. If only the saga of the V8 truck would conclude for some short time.

[XMDrifter]

so you dropped the Z body?
nice. you probably more in tune with your SC430.
so how does it drive now after you changed the shell?
and did you stiffen the front and lower the shell a bit(z shell wouldn't allow)?

[color0]

Putting the 350Z on the back burner... the SC430 corners flatter (like, you can't see the body roll at all) and feels more direct. It's a shame it's discontinued already. I'm using normal MR02 springs now, medium-soft. I think I'm going to have to bump to medium or medium-hard but only testing will tell.

In the meantime, here's a little something I'm working on... instead of the tierod horn, a conventional steering linkage can be fitted after all.



The original idea is EMU's (GSR team driver), but I fabricated my own adapter with the CNC mill. The ball joints are Atomic's, I used the shocks from their RM DPSII damper system, and glued the shock ends together to form a link.

Here's what it looks like in the car, very compact:



The steering seems to be a bit more precise with the linkage in, so this may actually be better than the tierod horn. However, I'm wary of trying to release this as a hop-up for the chassis until I can source good ball links. Shaving down the Atomic shocks and gluing them together is not my idea of user-friendliness. For anyone who doesn't mind a bit of DIY on their $110 chassis though, this mod is for you.

[XMDrifter]

hmm. what about those adjustable turnbuckles? i was thinking of using a turnbuckle thing when i design my xmod chassis
i'm gonna follow your basic concept color0 if you don't mind.
i'm just going to try design something like your MRCG so it uses xmods spec parts.
(hint: motor shaft will be parallel to length of chassis like a gen 1 but way more compact)

[color0]

I've never seen any company make 10mm adjustable turnbuckles.... 10mm links I could probably find from the micro-helicopter section, and that would be good enough for me since the adapter itself is adjustable and reversible.

You literally cannot follow my basic design on your Xmod chassis, are you going to punch a hole through 4 AAA's to run the driveshaft through?


Tex- missed your post, sorry. Sales are going OK so far, much slower than expected because of the economic plunge, but we're plodding along steadily.

[RedSXmodder]

Originally Posted by color0

You literally cannot follow my basic design on your Xmod chassis, are you going to punch a hole through 4 AAA's to run the driveshaft through?

Saddle pack?

The car looks great color0. Right now I'm debating things in my head though. Is the flex plate/t-bar system the most practical setup for suspension geometry at this scale? Or is it just the most common? I'm looking at the 1/10th scale touring cars at my hobby shop and realizing the capabilities of the independent/tower shock suspensions. Even the AWD SAS system (as innacurate as people accuse it to be) seems like a very advanced system to be on this scale. I guess what I'm kinda getting at is does the flexplate/t-bar suspention (2wd) have a clear advantage over any other style suspension geometry with 2wd cars?

Umm, I'm just kinda thinking about that and pitching designs through my head. The thing I think is kinda cool about the AWD is that its setup very much like a touring car. I'd kinda like to do a concept based around a touring car, but the thing is it'd be fairly long. Thats the disadvantage. Even if it is AWD...

Later,
RedSXmodder

[mini-z drift]

This is a great chassis first off.

Uhm, if you're ever going to try to making a AWD model, why not use a belt system?

[XMDrifter]

if i made an xmod version with your design concept, i wouldn't even think of AWD. xmods' AWD is too inefficient, and ith a chassis like yours, who needs it anyways?

i could make an AWD one, but that'd defeat my purpose.