mini-z vs xmods steering?

[bosco72]

But look how much you have to put in a z.

[zippo855]

i'm not sure where your getting this you have to throw a bunch of parts onto the mini z before you run it. from what i have seen and ran they are pretty much race ready out of the box. so how you can justify dropping 206 dollars on top of the 50 bucks spent for the kit, not to mention the time required to put the 206 dollars in upgrades on, i just dont understand. so 256 dollars plus hours and hours of upgrading and tuning instead of a mini z out of the box? you have issues man.
i have dumped a lot of money into xmods. 3-4 grand in the little over a year i have been into them. but if i was actually racing these i would have just bought some mini z's.
the xmods appeal more to me because of the cheap upgrading and customizing to how i want it. i dont race these. i have made xmods that max the dyno. bought and made xmods that are very custom, and very nice. but push come to shove, if i was racing i would get a mini z.

[c1v1c]

Originally Posted by 94exa2

what is it that makes the mini-z have better steering? other than the electronics?
servo?
tie-rod/something mechanical?

jw if i can make my evo steer as good as a mini, and how...

http://xmodsforum.co.uk/showthread.p...ighlight=homer

That's what Homer from XMF did to his trackcar about the steering issue, but imo, i'd be more worried about the motor position from an EVO than it's steering..

[bosco72]

Here is the point the MA-010 is a rc that has alot of parts and tuning.It should be because it's big around the world and mini z been out for a long time. But all you guys say how ****ty the evo is and the MA-010 is so much better.The EVO IS ONLY 49.99 so i don't mine if i have to buy GPM knuckles cause the knuckles break.But if i buy a 150.00 MA-010 and i have to buy GPM knuckles because the stock knuckles that's a problem.Or i have to buy a gray and blue chassis cause the stock one cracks.Then the funnest thing is you can't make fun of a mini z but can make fun of a xmod on a xmod forum.

Originally Posted by zippo855

i'm not sure where your getting this you have to throw a bunch of parts onto the mini z before you run it. from what i have seen and ran they are pretty much race ready out of the box. so how you can justify dropping 206 dollars on top of the 50 bucks spent for the kit, not to mention the time required to put the 206 dollars in upgrades on, i just dont understand. so 256 dollars plus hours and hours of upgrading and tuning instead of a mini z out of the box? you have issues man.
i have dumped a lot of money into xmods. 3-4 grand in the little over a year i have been into them. but if i was actually racing these i would have just bought some mini z's.
the xmods appeal more to me because of the cheap upgrading and customizing to how i want it. i dont race these. i have made xmods that max the dyno. bought and made xmods that are very custom, and very nice. but push come to shove, if i was racing i would get a mini z.

[zippo855]

no one is making fun of the evo. its just stating the facts that you have to put a lot of money into an xmod to get it to where it doesnt get embarassed by a mini z. you can drop a lot of money into a mini z aswell. but its not necessary for it to compete in a race. fell free to do what you want, but i can think of a lot better things to do with 206 bucks in upgrades, than dump it into one car...........


are you going to be racing with the car? at sanctioned events? if not just get an xmod. if you are look into the mini z. if you think the mini z is no better than a xmod, dont get it then. its your money spend it how you want to. we can all tell you about them but in the ends its what you do... you can take peoples advice, or find out for yourself.

[Donziikid]

Originally Posted by bosco72

Here is the point the MA-010 is a rc that has alot of parts and tuning.It should be because it's big around the world and mini z been out for a long time. But all you guys say how ****ty the evo is and the MA-010 is so much better.The EVO IS ONLY 49.99 so i don't mine if i have to buy GPM knuckles cause the knuckles break.But if i buy a 150.00 MA-010 and i have to buy GPM knuckles because the stock knuckles that's a problem.Or i have to buy a gray and blue chassis cause the stock one cracks.Then the funnest thing is you can't make fun of a mini z but can make fun of a xmod on a xmod forum.

Very rarely do I find a member of any forum complaining about how their Kyosho plastic knuckles have failed, cracked or chipped and they need to purchase GPM/Atomic. I've also found it hard to find a member complaining about their stock chassis cracking. Does it happen? Yeah, sure, to the best of us. Take a look at your Xmod, how many cracks and stuff do you see on it? I see about the same on my Xmod EVO as I do my Kyosho MA010. None. Why? I respect my RCs and know how to drive them and take care of them. Your probably getting your arguements and problems with chassis from members who have no respect for their RCs.

Oh, and my Xmod came with extra knuckles for their knuckle problem. They've addressed it because there is a widespread problem. Kyosho has not addressed this supposed knuckle problem because it isn't widespread or even a possible problem with the design or quality of their product. It just doesn't happen like it does with Xmods.

By the way, watch your language. No one else in this thread has lost their temper and thrown out a few cuss words. I expect the same from you. So far you've double posted and swore. You're getting close to infractions.

[acerpower]

i like the xmod but, in most cases it doesn't stand a chance against a properly tuned ma010. jace on xmf had some luck against the z on one particular track
but, the ma010s caught up soon enough and now he's using his ma010 more.
the track he did well on had allot of straits and is not very technical.

on other tracks the xmod doesn't stand much of a chance.
since i got my ma010, we will no longer be running the xmods with the ma010, and the xmods will have there own class at our club.
i think you can build a fast xmod for allot cheaper than jace spent on his.
the last time we raced we were pretty close and finished on the same lap.
i might have beat him if my microT pcb that i'm using didn't have reverse delay, and mine is no where near as upgraded as his.
but the bottom line is even a heavily modded xmod doesn't stand much of a chance against the Z. of course, sometimes anybody can get lucky.

[bosco72]

I'm not arguing with you but i used a word to describe something. I did not lose my temper at all

Originally Posted by Donziikid

Very rarely do I find a member of any forum complaining about how their Kyosho plastic knuckles have failed, cracked or chipped and they need to purchase GPM/Atomic. I've also found it hard to find a member complaining about their stock chassis cracking. Does it happen? Yeah, sure, to the best of us. Take a look at your Xmod, how many cracks and stuff do you see on it? I see about the same on my Xmod EVO as I do my Kyosho MA010. None. Why? I respect my RCs and know how to drive them and take care of them. Your probably getting your arguements and problems with chassis from members who have no respect for their RCs.

Oh, and my Xmod came with extra knuckles for their knuckle problem. They've addressed it because there is a widespread problem. Kyosho has not addressed this supposed knuckle problem because it isn't widespread or even a possible problem with the design or quality of their product. It just doesn't happen like it does with Xmods.

By the way, watch your language. No one else in this thread has lost their temper and thrown out a few cuss words. I expect the same from you. So far you've double posted and swore. You're getting close to infractions.

it's not luck it's skill ............. just like back in the day i raced my frog with RC -10's and won .

Originally Posted by acerpower

i like the xmod but, in most cases it doesn't stand a chance against a properly tuned ma010. jace on xmf had some luck against the z on one particular track
but, the ma010s caught up soon enough and now he's using his ma010 more.
the track he did well on had allot of straits and is not very technical.

on other tracks the xmod doesn't stand much of a chance.
since i got my ma010, we will no longer be running the xmods with the ma010, and the xmods will have there own class at our club.
i think you can build a fast xmod for allot cheaper than jace spent on his.
the last time we raced we were pretty close and finished on the same lap.
i might have beat him if my microT pcb that i'm using didn't have reverse delay, and mine is no where near as upgraded as his.
but the bottom line is even a heavily modded xmod doesn't stand much of a chance against the Z. of course, sometimes anybody can get lucky.

[XMDrifter]

a stock xmod will NOT keep up with a mini-z
any mini-z for that matter.
and chassis replacing is, what? 13 bucks, 15 bucks?
and to replace a full xmod chassis, you'll need to spend quite a bit more.
xmods are great if you're not racing competitively, but when it comes to racing competitively, xmods are really going to have a hard time.

now, if Iwaver chose to clone xmods but use their own electronics, that xmod knockoff would be better than a genuine xmod because even iwaver electronics are far superior in terms of their level of control.

sure, xmods can pass most of the voltage from their batts through to the motor while mini-z's are limited, but xmods just have such bad control/reception/lag that the motor advantage can't make up for it no matter what.

only if the other has absolutely no skill whatsoever will you be able to beat him

and saying that your tamiya frog kept up with rc 10's is like saying your iwaver kept up with a mini-z. they aren't much different.

[Action B]

Originally Posted by bosco72

chassis warps after time from the heat of the motor.
knuckles break
stock chassis cracks
cvd's snap
steering locking
here is the best one...everybody made fun of evos rear suspension.But atomic copied it.They did make it better but same concept.

HFAY allows Xmods gen 1 and evo in either awd or rwd platform. The Generation 1 xmods are also allowed to have the tight turn upgrade.

Chassis warp- caused by aluminum motor holders probably. Mine has it. I fixed it by shimming one knuckle (rear driverside).

Knuckles break- Not typically true when a car has a body that protects its wheels well. Anyhow, you can only expect so much from plastic no matter how much it costs. If you wreck a new R/C helicopter you can bet that it will break, that doesn't mean its crap. 3racing knuckes are 8 bucks for 2.

The stock chassis does crack, but to be honest, I've never replaced a chassis out of necessity. You can also buy a chassis with the blue/grey chassis assembled.

I've never seen a cvd snap.

In my opinion steering locks when there is a lack of front camber. Its not really a lock, its more like a lack of centering appropriately. Regardless, I think this is typically caused by user error in setup as, I've never had the probalem nor has anyone in my club.

Your last one is the worst. The chassis is probably your best argument here. Honestly, you are going to down kyosho because of an aftermarket part that atomic made? Truthfully, I think that the SAS system makes your car slower. You won't see that on world championship cars. (Look at Reflex racing setups). Stock is better.

Xmods aren't bad. Its just that the natural progression in the hobby is to move on to better things. When i started skateboarding I may have had a crappy board, but as I got more into it I bought a nicer board. All sports work in this way. If you get more serious, at some point your equipment will hold you back. Though, its never a bad idea to just start with the nice equipment if you know its something you want to do. This is much cheaper in the long run. Also, you look silly at the skatepark with your Walmart skateboard. It's all about your level of dedication to the hobby. I love 1/28 scale cars and racing, xmods are not an option for me.

[2wdpancar]

Driver vs. driver not car vs. car
You can put a good driver on an xmod and an intermediate driver on a mini-z, the xmod could win.
I know that people think one setup means that the car will win, but that is not the real life case. Xmods and mini-z both have their disadvantages but it depends on tuning and driving skill. W/o driving skill you cannot compare the two.

[94exa2]

ok ok ok, i KNOW the mini-z is better(as do most smart ppl) so no need to argue this.....MY question was how can i make the evo steering better?>i read gpm tie-rod helps, true?

also....

Originally Posted by XMDrifter

no it's got nothng to do with that. it's the electronics.
the bearings don't affect how tight you can turn left/right. it's just for fixing the tracking and wheel wobble.
just do a tight turn mod(even though it doen's make you turn tighter, it lets your servo turn right all the way instead of stopping so it matches the left)

the tight turn mod is just adding 2 resistors between the potentiometer and board. (i beleive that it's the orange and white potentiometer wires that you do the mod on if i'm not mistaken)

so again, DOES the gen1 tight turn work on the evo?

[dontspamme]

Originally Posted by 94exa2

so again, DOES the gen1 tight turn work on the evo?

Originally Posted by dontspamme

The tight turns upgrade for the Gen 1 does NOT work with any Evo series.

I've answered your question on the 1st page...

[zippo855]

the only way adding a resistor would help on an evo is if your not getting full lock to lock turning. which most of them do anyway. so if you found the correct value resistor you could help it some, if your haveing issues. but as stated, dont use the tight turn kit for the gen 1. similar principal but i think the value of the resistor would cause it to try to go past full lock and strain the motor causing the fets to strain.

[bosco72]

what will happen if you put a 24 point potentiometer in a xmod evo.Will it work with the stock electronics.Or if you put a 24 point potentiometer with a mini z board in the evo.

By the way this was a good discussion about both cars.I hope nobody took it serious I'm happy no one started fighting.

[Action B]

Originally Posted by bosco72

But look how much you have to put in a z.

Yes, if your not serious about the hobby get an Xmod. Mini-Z will hurt your wallet more and if you really don't care about competitive performance at the 1/28 scale, then you should stay with Xmods. If you want to be competitive, a Mini-Z is necessary along with any associated cost.

[color0]

Adding fuel to the fire because I'm bored...


Xmods CAN, if given a lot of TLC, become precise enough chassis-wise to compete with the Mini-Z. In fact I rather like the Xmods' dynamic strut (Gen 1) and McPherson strut (Evo) suspension systems, they are actually easier to get working than the Mini-Z's kingpin suspension. (For chrissake I had to buy polished kingpins and fluorine oil just to get it smooth, lol...) I can't tell you how much I adored my Xwaver, the thing was fast and powerful and certainly as precise as my current stock Mini-Z AWD.

However -- it takes a ******************load of work to get the Xmods chassis prepped correctly, and then you have to re-align your chassis and suspension every so often because the filing, gluing, etc. you do to your Xmods chassis will eventually wear out and the chassis will become sloppy again. Rebuilding the Xmods chassis took me several hours every time with all the CA glue I had to build up, then filing and sanding afterwards, oiling... when you're at the racetrack, this just isn't practical. Mini-Z's already come precise enough to race with, and if you wear anything out or break anything, you can just buy a replacement, instead of spending hours to fix what you've got.

Suspension alignments are also difficult to pull off with Xmods. I posted a tutorial sometime ago regarding modding a couple degrees of camber and caster into the suspension of the Xmods. But different tracks need different settings, right? Heck, different tires like different camber settings. Modding the chassis every time to change the camber would weaken it within a couple practice sessions, let alone a couple race days. I haven't fully rebuilt my MRCG since last December when I got new alloy parts for it... but I've changed the camber settings probably 20+ times. Modding my Xwaver chassis that many times to check camber would probably have broken a couple clear Gen 1 chassis by now.

The Xmod chassis gets tweaked if you just twist the chassis by hand a little. I think it's something with the plastic used, but it's almost like a memory compound -- it doesn't spring back. I noticed this when I first figured out how to preload the Gen 1 shocks against the torque steer caused by the motor. Twisting the chassis would put all my efforts to waste. Kyosho plastic is better by far, although it's about the same stiffness (MA010 vs. Xmod Gen 1/Evo) the MA010 plastic seems more resilient, it doesn't get tweaked unless the motor melted something (which does happen, I've heard, which is why it's important to have good heatsinks on the motor).

The MA010 drivetrain is freer than the Xmods, just because of the way the gears are made I think. While we can get machined Delrin gears for the MA010, Xmods are still stuck with imperfect molded pinions and spurs. The Gen 1 ball differentials can perform well with some amount of work, namely getting better pressure plates, ceramic balls, and filing off all the plastic flashing that prevents the balls from actuating. GPM ball differentials for the Evo can be modified the same way. With enough work you can get them to be as good as MA010 ball diffs, however, they will need more frequent rebuilds.

And one last issue is weight. Lighter is usually faster, and most competition Mini-Z's are in the 180-190g range. I believe Xmods are usually 20-40g heavier (I think my first Gen 1 was 220g) unless using lithium-ion batteries. So while the Xmod can be very stable against the Mini-Z's in contact, in top-level competition where there's very little crashing, it won't be able to keep up in the tight, technical sections where light weight is the king.



So yeah, even if my Xwaver could be made specwise identical to a racing MA010, I'm probably going to stick with the MRCG for a long time to come. It's just quicker to rebuild and setup over the course of a race day, due to having more replaceable components, less work needed to make said components work properly, and more pre-made parts for adjusting car settings rather than having to spend the time to do it yourself. THIS is the definitive reason why people race Mini-Z's and not Xmods.

[bosco72]

nice write up ...for the 49.99 the evo is a great car.I still think if it was made with better plastic and had more tuning parts like the z it would be a great racer.all GPM or atomic has to do is make different top plates with holes in a different place and make the bottom steering plate longer with a extra lip so there is no play in the tie rod.

Hunmm well i guess you get what you pay for on the evo's for 49.99 gues you can't expect them to be made from top notch materials like the other 1/28

[Donziikid]

Bosco, that's the third time you've double-posted. Either use the edit button or your next offense will result in infractions. I've even warned you in my previous posts about this. Don't let it happen again.

[bosco72]

it was my brother in law who wrote the last post joking while i was out of the room.

Originally Posted by Donziikid

Bosco, that's the third time you've double-posted. Either use the edit button or your next offense will result in infractions. I've even warned you in my previous posts about this. Don't let it happen again.