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  #1  
Old 11-28-2009, 12:52 PM
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Default Pattern winding anyone?

Well, finally got into pattern winding...

This is a 28 turn motor on a stage1 armature with 30 gauge wire if I'm not mistaken.(not sure)
My first working pattern wound motor. I have made 2 more but no pics.






And it gets a Z2 motor can




That's the actual Z2 motor beside it.

I seem to be able mo make any kind I want.
I have made a 28T,35T and a 45T so far.

If Redsxmodder can give me a source for motor parts. I might actually produce them
BTW, anyone know how I can contact him? I have sent PM's and even tried his MSN with no luck....

Comments/Suggestions/Criticism welcome.

More soon!

Later, T.I.M
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:55 PM
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looks really good! hows it run? fet safe?(lol prob not)
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Old 11-28-2009, 01:14 PM
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RedSX has been generally inactive lately. it looks good, though the solder tabs seem a tiny bit messy.

i'd also like to recommend Hemi-style winding. instead of crossing over the top. you go straight down. it helps keep winds tight, and also has the effect to being faster by 1 to 1/2T look it up and it should seem pretty apparent to you how its done.
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMDrifter View Post
RedSX has been generally inactive lately. it looks good, though the solder tabs seem a tiny bit messy.
Try his face book/

I know Performace Xmods/Underground Xmods used to sell motor parts back in the day, but I don't know if he's still in business. You can try ebay. Otherwise Radio Shack sells cheap 130 sized motors for like $1.49 a piece. You can strip them and pull them apart for cheap parts. Probably not the best parts, but it's cheap to practice on.
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  #5  
Old 12-04-2009, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winner View Post
looks really good! hows it run? fet safe?(lol prob not)
Thanks! Real good. Nope. anything under 45T is not FET safe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XMDrifter View Post
RedSX has been generally inactive lately. it looks good, though the solder tabs seem a tiny bit messy.

i'd also like to recommend Hemi-style winding. instead of crossing over the top. you go straight down. it helps keep winds tight, and also has the effect to being faster by 1 to 1/2T look it up and it should seem pretty apparent to you how its done.
So I've noticed. Lol.
As for the tabs, other people also advised me not to use so much....Future motors will have minimum...

Hemi-style winding? Never heard of it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweed View Post
Try his face book/

I know Performace Xmods/Underground Xmods used to sell motor parts back in the day, but I don't know if he's still in business. You can try ebay. Otherwise Radio Shack sells cheap 130 sized motors for like $1.49 a piece. You can strip them and pull them apart for cheap parts. Probably not the best parts, but it's cheap to practice on.
Added him....Just waiting for acceptance...

Basicly I need a source for armatures. brushes, endbells, cases etc. are all available from one place or the other. Trying to find a place that sells arms...

i have only 3 proper arms. Taken from my T2, Z2 and chilli.
I stripped the wire off them and wound my own. The chilli i stripped last night, Still deciding what kind of motor to make....
On the T2 straight arm i made a 45T which i am running on my xmods and miniz.
The Z2 arm is a spiral arm. And winding on spiral is fricking hard... That got a 35T.(basicly i now have a patternwound Z2) And you have seen the stage one arm above....

What i have learnt so far:
the Z2,T2 and Chilli are ALL 35T motors. And i think they all use the same gauge wire aswell.(no confirmation on that yet)
The only difference is, the Z2 uses spiral arm, same EGR can as T2 which is a straight arm. And the chilli is in the M1 motor endbell.

So if you were to make a track motor and you had all three. I would suggest putting the Z2 arm in the chilli can.

Hope this helps someone....

And btw, i used a dab of superglue to keep the tabs in place

at this rate, I might make a patternwinding tut with a video soon.

Here are the pics of all 3 motors I have made so far.
I got a macro lens for my D90 aswell:

45T





28T




.


Comments and criticism welcome.

Later, T.I.M
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  #6  
Old 12-05-2009, 10:23 AM
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Looking extremely good! The only thing I can really criticize on is your winding style and the wire connecting at the comm tabs.

1st: Go hemi. Its much more preferable. Like XMDrifter said, it technically uses a bit less wire, so depending on your stack height and pattern, you can use this to eliminate the "extra" wire and make your armatures ever closer to being...well...true to the wind count. Its not difficult, and alot of people who pattern wind find it much easier to wind like that.

Basically with the wire crossing, your adding anywhere between half to a full turn to your finaly wind count by crossing the wire and using the factory cross winding technique. Some think this would balance out the effect of different lengths of wire on different levels of the stack, however if this were true, theoretically if you wound a 35t, it could end up being nearly a 36 to 36 1/2 turn motor. We as motor builders typically wouldn't notice this, however, if you do it right, you can dial in your stack height to suit your driving style, and not worry about extra wire length throwing of the accuracy of the wind count. This is one of the reasons I prefer hemi winding, especially in lower turn motors.

2nd: In one arm, you soldered the wires to the tabs with too much solder, and the other one you didn't solder at all.

This can fly two ways: Your a gung-ho high stakes motor junkie who runs his motors till the brushes melt onto the comm and the solder you use to hold your wires in place melts off, or your a typical driver, who takes care of his motors and never pushes his motor over board. Since you will probably never push your motor so hard the solder melts, I think you should solder your tabs. Except don't go overboard. If your motor has tabs decent tabs, run the wire under the tabs and then solder and clamp securely. Don't go overkill with the solder. The lighter the comm is the better. Less rotational mass=more rpm, plus if there is too much on one tab, it'll tilt the balance of the arm ever so slightly.

Plus with a solder/clamp combo, if for insane reasons you do get the solder "soft" while running the **** out of your motor, it'll still be clamped, and the centrifugal force won't seperate the the wire from the comm tab.

Good luck finding specialty armatures because Auldey stopped making/selling them looong ago. The only ones you get now adays are out of motors like the Chili/T2/Z2, etc....
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  #7  
Old 12-24-2009, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSXmodder View Post
Looking extremely good! The only thing I can really criticize on is your winding style and the wire connecting at the comm tabs.

1st: Go hemi. Its much more preferable. Like XMDrifter said, it technically uses a bit less wire, so depending on your stack height and pattern, you can use this to eliminate the "extra" wire and make your armatures ever closer to being...well...true to the wind count. Its not difficult, and alot of people who pattern wind find it much easier to wind like that.

Basically with the wire crossing, your adding anywhere between half to a full turn to your finaly wind count by crossing the wire and using the factory cross winding technique. Some think this would balance out the effect of different lengths of wire on different levels of the stack, however if this were true, theoretically if you wound a 35t, it could end up being nearly a 36 to 36 1/2 turn motor. We as motor builders typically wouldn't notice this, however, if you do it right, you can dial in your stack height to suit your driving style, and not worry about extra wire length throwing of the accuracy of the wind count. This is one of the reasons I prefer hemi winding, especially in lower turn motors.

Yeah, after you showed me that picture. I understood what you meant by Hemi winding.

2nd: In one arm, you soldered the wires to the tabs with too much solder, and the other one you didn't solder at all.

This can fly two ways: Your a gung-ho high stakes motor junkie who runs his motors till the brushes melt onto the comm and the solder you use to hold your wires in place melts off, or your a typical driver, who takes care of his motors and never pushes his motor over board. Since you will probably never push your motor so hard the solder melts, I think you should solder your tabs. Except don't go overboard. If your motor has tabs decent tabs, run the wire under the tabs and then solder and clamp securely. Don't go overkill with the solder. The lighter the comm is the better. Less rotational mass=more rpm, plus if there is too much on one tab, it'll tilt the balance of the arm ever so slightly.

Plus with a solder/clamp combo, if for insane reasons you do get the solder "soft" while running the **** out of your motor, it'll still be clamped, and the centrifugal force won't seperate the the wire from the comm tab.

Done that already. Thanks.

Good luck finding specialty armatures because Auldey stopped making/selling them looong ago. The only ones you get now adays are out of motors like the Chili/T2/Z2, etc....
Lol. I may have found a a source.
Dude, coming from you, that means a LOT.

I am going to be pattern winding motors till the day I am in the hobby, maybe even after that. No I'm not crazy, I enjoy making motors.
Most people Just know how a motor works or how to wind normally.

I bet if ANYONE here understood the technicality of pattern winding and just how much more there is to them than just winding a wire over a pole. They would be blown away.


this is something I am very proud of. I have yet to make a working version of this but atleast I am now sure that this is even possible.

Patternwinding a 540 type motor.

As you guys know, these are very different from normal xmod motors(130/180 type motors)
Everything is different. The way the brushes are mounted, the commutator is amazingly different and the armature itself is a work of art.

This is what you get when you pop the can open of a 540 type motor:




The endbell:


The arm itself:



There is even hot glue to hold the winds in place.:shock:



The green stuff you see is epoxy used to balance the motor. Did I mention this motor was perfectly balanced?

I have been through one 540 arm before... I messed up the comm. pieces while trying to get them off. These things are a pain in the a$$ to get off. So **** easy to mess up.

I tried to take pics that explain:




You have to literally pull it off and it clips on in a similar way to how a door opens, you open the handle, the 'hook' part ifts op, and opens the door.< hope that makes sense...

Anyway, the comm is split up in 3 pieces, that come off:




/\ If the comm. part did not make sense, PLEASE let me know.

The motor was a 27T motor. i have NO IDEA what gauge wire it was wound with. I basicle used the same wire I took off the arm...< I don't reccoment anyone doing this for 2 reasons.
1) The wire gets bent in a spiralling way due to how it's wound.
2) Getting the wire straight is a pain in the a$$

I did a simple 21T pattern wind, I didn't have enough wire to do more than that or do more than one pole. Right now, I have only one pole down. BUT this just proves that 'IT IS POSSIBLE TO PATTERNWIND A 540 TYPE MOTOR.'

Pics:






Compared with a 35T spiral 130 type arm:




Next to my Z body:


Yes it's huge...

And just because it's big DOES NOT mean it's easier to wind. It is in fact MUCH MUCH harder to wind than a 130 type arm.

The wire is so thick, it's hard to keep the wind tight. the wire slips like hell.

ANY comments/suggestion/criticism is welcome.

Later, T.I.M
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  #8  
Old 12-24-2009, 06:38 PM
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actually, i was planning to take apart my 540 myself. how'd you crack that endcap off? it's **** near impossible for me.
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Old 12-24-2009, 07:16 PM
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Took it out of your TT-01 eh? I have one on my Hornet, darn old.
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Old 12-25-2009, 05:03 PM
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i got a few to contribute here:



eh tayyab?
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Old 12-29-2009, 05:44 AM
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The first one is awesome.
How many T arm is that?

and the second, that's a low wind motor, wow, and why does one pole seem like it has less winds than the rest? how many T arm?
and which awg wire do u use?

Later, T.I.M
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Old 12-29-2009, 04:06 PM
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i used 30 awg. fisrt is 45t, second is 24t
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Old 02-06-2010, 08:34 AM
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Latest works,

21T 540 Type patternwound motor with 22Awg wire.






What is different here?





More to come soon.

Comments/Suggestions welcome.

Later, T.I.M
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Old 02-06-2010, 11:53 AM
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You sanded and polished comm. Gonna stick that into your TT-01? If so, it might burn out the ESC.
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Old 02-06-2010, 04:39 PM
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why is the wire crossing the front?
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