Tuner vs. Muscle

[THE EDJ]

So in another thread there was some discussion of tuner cars vs. muscle cars, and it was really off topic, but right here, we are on topic so, giver er boys. there seemed to be a bit of heat involved but lets try to keep it to a minimum here. No BS, or unsupported claims, if you sway one way or the other offer some good hard cold reason why.

I'm gonna start off and go with the tuner car. They are very versatile and can offer lots of power. Ive read in magazines such as Modified, Import Tuner, HCI, and plenty others, of cars like civics and integras with over 400 hp. Power to weight ratio is HUGE.

Just for the sake of example, we will take my 1989 Honda CRX Si, and tune it to around 300 hp (which is what i would like to do, but money...) and compare that to a brand new 2007 Mustang GT500. I got my info from the following sources:

http://www.crxsi.com/specs.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105085

First up the 1989 Honda CRX Si:
Weight: 2138 lb
hp: 300
Power to weight ratio: 7.13 lb/hp

2007 Mustang GT 500:
Weight: 3600 lb
hp: 450
Power to weight ratio: 8.00 hp/lb

THE CRX WINS!

the ratios are close, but still that CRX only has 300 hp and with a decent motor and turbo setup it wouldnt be too difficult to find more horsepower than that.

Reason number one why i pick tuner over muscle? It would be funny as hell to see some guy in a CRX beat a guy who just spent 40 grand so that he could show those "punks" in them tuner cars what a real car was...

[civic_guy]

I love all cars. But Imports really take advantage of the laws of physics but the torque put out by a muscle car is unrivaled. Personally I like imports they're kinda the underdog. :D

[REDisFASTER]

I'd take the 'stang purely because it's RWD and that's what its all about ;)

[DRFTKO]

I'd take the 'stang purely because it's RWD and that's what its all about ;)


yea so is a 240Sx(Silvia) rx-7 and toyota supras and countless other "tuners"

[civic_guy]

Yeah...I've seen some mildly tuned Supras take out some mean stangs...
But track dominating supras aren't very common, they're mostly dyno queens. The most impressive 1/4 run i've ever seen was of a R33 skyline...over 600 AWHP....if you've ever seen a perfect AWD launch...that's what it's all about....so beautiful...

I've seen several STI's and EVOs lay it down too...

Also seen a mid 7 stang (old one dont remember what year) smoke some hyabusas at the track as well.


God i love cars....

[The_Modfather]

I'm with civic_guy I love all cars. If it has 4 wheels and goes fast count me in. But let me tell ya where the power is(go ahead and laugh I know ya will)......diesel. I was at Clay city dragstrip in clay city ky with a friend of mine. We had his '72 nova,383 stroker,forged rods,pistons and crank, engine had been ported and polished, high rise intake with a holley 850. He had gutted the interior, this car was built to race, 412 hp at the rear wheels. He was clickin off high 10.9's low 11.0's and was beating every thing that came his way. that was untill the Ford F350 got on the track. 4x4 king cab, windows up AC on with four people in the cab. The tree came down and my buddy ran with him till about half track and then the ford just ran off and left him. The ford ran a 10.80 and all he was runnin was a bullydog setup and propane injection. When this happened the nova got loaded on the trailer and we left cause it hurt my buddys feelings. Now what I would like to see is someone hop up a diesel VW and see what they could do with it,that would be awesome. OK.....now let the hate mail begin. lol:D

[musclecars4life]

A day at the drag strip By: MC4L

ok so i was at the drag strip last weekend. i saw 3 sec ETs coming from a muscle car, so im like ok that normal no big deal... but then there came the tuner's. stock ones first. 17-20sec ETs out of them puppies (not bad for stock), then came the FULLY tuned ones. the fasted ET ran was by a FWD Civic and a GIRL was driving it... 7.89sec ET. so now they go to the Outlaw races. first match up Civic Crx Hatchback vs. 2006 Mustang (both fully customized), the mustang won by .9 sec, Mustang ET: 5 sec FLAT, CRX: ET 5.9 sec, now 5.9 sec aint bad, BUT. as you can see domestic/muscle cars ARE faster. BTW the only cars that EVER did a wheelie that day were the muscle cars... no tuners (not even the supra that was there) did a wheelie, you know why? because tuners SUCK!!! lol j/k im cool with drive a tuner as an every day car, but when it comes to racing the only tuner i will drive is a WRX STi or a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII.

BTW: for those of you that dont know what ET stands for it stands for Elapsed Time

[Gruntofaction]

So in another thread there was some discussion of tuner cars vs. muscle cars, and it was really off topic, but right here, we are on topic so, giver er boys. there seemed to be a bit of heat involved but lets try to keep it to a minimum here. No BS, or unsupported claims, if you sway one way or the other offer some good hard cold reason why.

I'm gonna start off and go with the tuner car. They are very versatile and can offer lots of power. Ive read in magazines such as Modified, Import Tuner, HCI, and plenty others, of cars like civics and integras with over 400 hp. Power to weight ratio is HUGE.

Just for the sake of example, we will take my 1989 Honda CRX Si, and tune it to around 300 hp (which is what i would like to do, but money...) and compare that to a brand new 2007 Mustang GT500. I got my info from the following sources:

http://www.crxsi.com/specs.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105085

First up the 1989 Honda CRX Si:
Weight: 2138 lb
hp: 300
Power to weight ratio: 7.13 lb/hp

2007 Mustang GT 500:
Weight: 3600 lb
hp: 450
Power to weight ratio: 8.00 hp/lb

THE CRX WINS!

the ratios are close, but still that CRX only has 300 hp and with a decent motor and turbo setup it wouldnt be too difficult to find more horsepower than that.

Reason number one why i pick tuner over muscle? It would be funny as hell to see some guy in a CRX beat a guy who just spent 40 grand so that he could show those "punks" in them tuner cars what a real car was...

Kinda funny you picked a CRX.
Thats the same car im planning to get only its a 1990 Honda CRX Si.

lol.

[young_ricer_14]

i love tuners and muscle cars alike. with the tuners, u get the style and intmidation. with the muscle u get the nail biting tourqe and more respectg from ur elders. who cares!, as long as its fast i dont really give a fyting f***.

[TheB1GDude]

I used to be a tuner only guy but since moving to America I have taken on a new appreciation for muscle cars! My ultimate muscle car would be a 69 GTO! However I am still a tuner at heart with my utlimate tuner car being a Supra TT. Realistically if I could afford a decent car then I wouldnt care what it was! If someone was going to buy me a fully tuned GTO or Supra I would be like "OK!!"!

Now whilst the level of torque out of a muscle car is amazing the amount of horse power you can get out a tuner engine is far more amazing! I guess what you could do is just replace the turbochargers of your turner car with superchargers and bingo you have tuner car with that instant muscle car power - not saying that the tuner would beat the muscle but it would make things a little more fun!

[bigmike17]

I like them both. My high school car was a 68 Camaro 396 c.i. Then I went on to a 70 Plymouth Cuda 440 c.i. Although for a while there I got involved in the four wheel drive crowd, I did eventually get myself into a Maxda RX-7 and in most recent years into a Dodge Avenger with upgraded brakes, exhuast, and computer. I had to get rid of the Avenger this last summer because I coudnt afford 3 vehicles (The other two being a GMC Crew Cab Dually & Dodge Durango).

[civic_guy]

A day at the drag strip By: MC4L

ok so i was at the drag strip last weekend. i saw 3 sec ETs coming from a muscle car, so im like ok that normal no big deal... but then there came the tuner's. stock ones first. 17-20sec ETs out of them puppies (not bad for stock), then came the FULLY tuned ones. the fasted ET ran was by a FWD Civic and a GIRL was driving it... 7.89sec ET. so now they go to the Outlaw races. first match up Civic Crx Hatchback vs. 2006 Mustang (both fully customized), the mustang won by .9 sec, Mustang ET: 5 sec FLAT, CRX: ET 5.9 sec, now 5.9 sec aint bad, BUT. as you can see domestic/muscle cars ARE faster. BTW the only cars that EVER did a wheelie that day were the muscle cars... no tuners (not even the supra that was there) did a wheelie, you know why? because tuners SUCK!!! lol j/k im cool with drive a tuner as an every day car, but when it comes to racing the only tuner i will drive is a WRX STi or a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII.

BTW: for those of you that dont know what ET stands for it stands for Elapsed Time

Like I said before you're not gonna see many powerful supras tuned for the track...most of em are dyno queens. Are you sure about 3 sec et? Is that for the 1/4 mile? I was watching all the NHRA stuff on espn the other day and the fricken crazy *** flamethrowing funny cars could barely pull down into the 3's...


You gotta give the CRX props though because getting traction on a FWD with anything above 450 whp is a B**CH

[musclecars4life]

Like I said before you're not gonna see many powerful supras tuned for the track...most of em are dyno queens. Are you sure about 3 sec et? Is that for the 1/4 mile? I was watching all the NHRA stuff on espn the other day and the fricken crazy *** flamethrowing funny cars could barely pull down into the 3's...


You gotta give the CRX props though because getting traction on a FWD with anything above 450 whp is a B**CH

yeah these car ran faster times than John Force (the most famous Funny Car driver) but most of these cars have 2500+ hp the funny cars are only allowed a 2200hp car. and that CRX was lucky to have even raced. the owners of the car had some engine trouble.

[kidZim]

I don't belong here, cause i am a fan of Euro Exotics :(

[joe913]

There's no replacement for displacement!

[civic_guy]

yeah these car ran faster times than John Force (the most famous Funny Car driver) but most of these cars have 2500+ hp the funny cars are only allowed a 2200hp car. and that CRX was lucky to have even raced. the owners of the car had some engine trouble.

Awesome! We never get any cars down in houston that are that fast...not that i've seen anyway.

Here's a vid you guys might enjoy...it's a 2JZ powered 240...they wreck havoc on all the domestic guys that are all talk but cant back it up.

http://media.putfile.com/DUY-240-2JZ-POWERED

Don't get me wrong I love Muscle cars...but there's just a great feeling of accomplishment that comes when you beat a car that everyone else thinks will win hands down.

I don't belong here, cause i am a fan of Euro Exotics :(
You're not alone...and technically they're imports as well...so mister big ego mustang guy better recognize the power of a V-12!! :p im jk, im jk...but seriously, I love the Lambo Murcielago...probly my fav car of all time...the sound of V-12has no equal imo.

[young_ricer_14]

i know dude, i have a seisure and s*** my pants when u hears a pack of lambos comin through when i was in cali, the sound of a v12 is great, know whats better? a v24. thats right cadillac sixteen baby.

[civic_guy]

i know dude, i have a seisure and s*** my pants when u hears a pack of lambos comin through when i was in cali, the sound of a v12 is great, know whats better? a v24. thats right cadillac sixteen baby.

:lol: ME TOO! Cept here in houston I've only seen one Murcielago, I see a lot of Ferraris though...but for some reason Ferraris don't apeal to me...don't get me wrong if I could buy one I'd buy one...but there's something about the Murcielago's looks that makes it sexier than a Ferrari.

[BlackSky909]

So in another thread there was some discussion of tuner cars vs. muscle cars, and it was really off topic, but right here, we are on topic so, giver er boys. there seemed to be a bit of heat involved but lets try to keep it to a minimum here. No BS, or unsupported claims, if you sway one way or the other offer some good hard cold reason why.

I'm gonna start off and go with the tuner car. They are very versatile and can offer lots of power. Ive read in magazines such as Modified, Import Tuner, HCI, and plenty others, of cars like civics and integras with over 400 hp. Power to weight ratio is HUGE.

Just for the sake of example, we will take my 1989 Honda CRX Si, and tune it to around 300 hp (which is what i would like to do, but money...) and compare that to a brand new 2007 Mustang GT500. I got my info from the following sources:

http://www.crxsi.com/specs.htm
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=105085

First up the 1989 Honda CRX Si:
Weight: 2138 lb
hp: 300
Power to weight ratio: 7.13 lb/hp

2007 Mustang GT 500:
Weight: 3600 lb
hp: 450
Power to weight ratio: 8.00 hp/lb

THE CRX WINS!

the ratios are close, but still that CRX only has 300 hp and with a decent motor and turbo setup it wouldnt be too difficult to find more horsepower than that.

Reason number one why i pick tuner over muscle? It would be funny as hell to see some guy in a CRX beat a guy who just spent 40 grand so that he could show those "punks" in them tuner cars what a real car was...
Who the hell said a CRX Si has 300hp?

[Gruntofaction]

Who the hell said a CRX Si has 300hp?


Considering a Stock one has about 120HP to my knowlage....

Maybe he just likes tuners so he amped it up lol. :eyecraz: :eyecraz:

[REDisFASTER]

yea so is a 240Sx(Silvia) rx-7 and toyota supras and countless other "tuners"

Yeah, I know that, but out of the ones he posted (CRX and the stang)

[BlackSky909]

Considering a Stock one has about 120HP to my knowlage....

Maybe he just likes tuners so he amped it up lol. :eyecraz: :eyecraz:
Thats what im saying, If its a Vtech then its got like 200hp.

[Thriller]

Im into tuners personaly but there are a lot more things to tale into account....a 300hp CRX could proly beat a 400hp mustang off the line slimly because of the weight difference but a few feet later, you know the CRX would start seeing that mustang's tailights :D

[thrillbilly]

I love trucks, i guess you could consider those as muscle cars..... same engines, well i know my truck will smoke a stock civic {ive done it!!}!!!! as far as the mustang vs. the crx, the crx would take it off the line.. and maybe the whole track depending on the trans, i mean if it has 300 horsepower....

[REDisFASTER]

Yeah. It seems like a close race. I'm more into tuners (but RWD ones).

But I think if this is a typical drag race, the 'ole boring drive as fast as you in a straight line, very minimal driving skill involved type racing, then it would be pretty close.

If this were a circuit race (aka, the one where actual driver skill is involved and less the car), the Mustang for sure do extremely well with RWD handling characteristics and techniques.

Its not all about power. The Civic may have the advantage in the straights, but straights are for sissies, real men take the corners :nod:

[musclecars4life]

Drag racing takes more skill than circuit racing... all you gotta do in circuit racing is brake and turn. in a drag you have the control of the car to go straight (harder than it looks) and you have to have fast shifts, you also need a really fast reaction time. DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU TRY IT.

[REDisFASTER]

Drag racing takes more skill than circuit racing... all you gotta do in circuit racing is brake and turn. in a drag you have the control of the car to go straight (harder than it looks) and you have to have fast shifts, you also need a really fast reaction time. DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU TRY IT.
More skill than circuit racing?

Circuit racing involves PROPER shifting, consistent downshifting using heel-toe. Proper turn-in and turn-outs for each corner, properly set up car, camber, caster, toe, spring rates, damper rates, boost tuning, engine response (whether some tracks need more responsive engines slightly lagged engines), passing skills and proper places to pass, many other cars on the track to watch out for and take advantage of. DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU TRY IT.

brake and turn? I think not. Almost all forms of racing needs fast shifts. Other than that, you just need to make sure you launch the car properly without spinning the wheels and losing traction at the start and not to burn your clutch.

Besides, how long is a drag race? You can probably count in minutes, the whole time that a single guy was on the track for a whole day.

In circuit racing, its usually hours. The driver needs concentration, proper communication between their pit crew, and integrity to last that long on the track, while staying competitive and moving up in positions.

[musclecars4life]

More skill than circuit racing?

Circuit racing involves PROPER shifting, consistent downshifting using heel-toe. Proper turn-in and turn-outs for each corner, properly set up car, camber, caster, toe, spring rates, damper rates, boost tuning, engine response (whether some tracks need more responsive engines slightly lagged engines), passing skills and proper places to pass, many other cars on the track to watch out for and take advantage of. DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU TRY IT.

brake and turn? I think not. Almost all forms of racing needs fast shifts. Other than that, you just need to make sure you launch the car properly without spinning the wheels and losing traction at the start and not to burn your clutch.

i HAVE tried it... and i race automatic... all it takes is the right braking and turning. lol on the other hand automatic drag racing takes: the skill to keep the car going straight, and the proper reaction time to get off the line faster. circuit racing is EASY!!! try drag racing.

[REDisFASTER]

i HAVE tried it... and i race automatic... all it takes is the right braking and turning. lol on the other hand automatic drag racing takes: the skill to keep the car going straight, and the proper reaction time to get off the line faster. circuit racing is EASY!!! try drag racing.
Automatic? Do it with manual. Let's see if you can get the same results.

If you know how to properly drop the clutch and at which rpm without spinning the rear, then props. Otherwise, automatic = boring.

Circuit racing is using manual transmission cars. They're not the same as automatics.

And I HAVE tried drag racing on a long empty highway (single lane highways here, I was on the on-coming lane). I was in my friend's '88 RX-7 Turbo II (not twin turbo) going against one of our friend's Eagle Talon (turbo'd). It was a close race, but he made it to the exit first due to his car having more torque and HP than the RX-7. It was pretty fun, since it was more than a 1/4 mile.

If you didn't see:

Besides, how long is a drag race? You can probably count in minutes, the whole time that a single guy was on the track for a whole day.

In circuit racing, its usually hours. The driver needs concentration, proper communication between their pit crew, and integrity to last that long on the track, while staying competitive and moving up in positions.

Racing in automatic isn't the same as racing in manual. A novice driver could race easily using automatic, but they won't LEARN anything since there's only two pedals and a wheel.

Circuit racing is NOT EASY because you haven't driven in true circuit racing manner.

[musclecars4life]

NASCAR dont count dude... and this is about Mscle vs tuner, so let both get back on topic.

[REDisFASTER]

Yeah, you're right, sorry OP for hijacking your thread, back to topic boys ;)

and I'm not talking about Nascar, I'm talking about REAL circuits.

http://www.ratech.co.jp/circuit/images/ebisu-W.jpg

[DRFTKO]

real men take the corners :nod:


so true, so true, drag racing gets real old after a while:nod:

[civic_guy]

Most track supras are auto...an Auto supra > a manual supra on the track any day.

Circut takes waaaay more skill and practice than drag racing does. And it takes a more well rounded car.

Muscle cars may have the adavntage on the dragstrip but when it comes to a circut race....imports rule.

[Thriller]

musclecars im sorry but drag racing isnt more complicated then circuit racing. I consider myself to be a DRAG only fan, and yes it is very hard to do, control that torque off the line, but a circuit race you gota down shift, then go from 3rd to 4th, back to 2nd while looking at which way to take the corners.....:eyecraz: anyways
circuit racing VS. drag racing--------> skill wise, circuit wins ! :D

[DRFTKO]

mc4l dont knock circuit racing any, you drag race with an automatic, there is not too much skill there;)

[Thriller]

:salut: amen to that
and btw, youre musclecars4life, but why do you have a tuner car as an avatar ?? :D

[sweetvette]

oh no! your puttin 300hp into fwd honda! who cares? you put $50,000 into a $2000 car and for 30,000 you can get a brand new Pontiac Gto with 400hp.
The Gto was designed for 400 horses while the crx you want to supe up has out dated everything and was designed for fuel economy, not tokyo drifting!

[DRFTKO]

:salut: amen to that
and btw, youre musclecars4life, but why do you have a tuner car as an avatar ?? :D


yea and you drive a "tuner" or as you "the only car that exsists in my world is American vehicles" type of guy would call it a "ricer". Sorry to be such an a@# but it is true:nodno:

[young_ricer_14]

he strapped a **** rocket to it. :lol:

[sweetvette]

he strapped a **** rocket to it. :lol:
WHAT???:-?

hehe i dont get it

[musclecars4life]

:salut: amen to that
and btw, youre musclecars4life, but why do you have a tuner car as an avatar ?? :D

cause i cant find or take a pic of a cool xmod muscle car. MUSCLE CARS 4 LIFE!!!!!!!!:nod:

[THE EDJ]

Who the hell said a CRX Si has 300hp?

it was hypothetical... its what i would like to do to my car if you would have read the whole thing. the CRX isnt a fast car stock, i know that better than anyone else, but the premise behind it is that it can be made fast with the right knowledge and some money. tuners are versatile, and thats part of the fun. put a chip in a car and you can drag race on the weekend and then change things up and have an impromtu autocross race with the friends next weekend, all while tuning it down to drive to work and back during the week. all these huge power muscle cars dont usually see street use because there is too much power and too much money invested into them. i like a car i can drive on a daily basis, its hard to do that in a muscle. as much as i love the american classics, i couldnt drive one on the streets cuz i would be too afraid to get beat down by some kid in a civic

[thrillbilly]

what we've been saying all along is that you dont have to worry about getting beat down by a punk in a civic when your in reall hardcore american muscle ..... and why put money into a car that you wont drive on the street whats the point....

[THE EDJ]

the guys makes a really good point there

[REDisFASTER]

Nahh guys, no need to knock on mc4l about autos. Autos can be fun in their own regard as well ;)

[musclecars4life]

Nahh guys, no need to knock on mc4l about autos. Autos can be fun in their own regard as well ;)
go ahead and knock me... just remember that if i take it offensive i can ban you. lol j/k guys.

and the only reason i drive an Automatic tuner is cause my Great Grandma gave it to me, and im not gonna sell her car. though if my dad lets me i am gonna swap out the auto tranny for a 5 speed manual.:D

[DRFTKO]

what we've been saying all along is that you dont have to worry about getting beat down by a punk in a civic when your in reall hardcore american muscle ..... and why put money into a car that you wont drive on the street whats the point....



i drive a civic, does that make me a punk? MC4L if someone says something that is minor and offends you, how does that give you a right to ban them, they are not breaking any rules there. Im sorry to offend you but it shouldnt be a one-sided situation.

[RodsRUs]

ok this could go on FOREVER!!
yes deffinitly there are some tuners that could take muscle...and DEFFINITLY some that could take corners better than muscle. its all about weight to power ratio but you cant just do that with Horse power you have to bring in torque also..

[REDisFASTER]

go ahead and knock me... just remember that if i take it offensive i can ban you. and the only reason i drive an Automatic tuner is cause my Great Grandma gave it to me, and im not gonna sell her car. though if my dad lets me i am gonna swap out the auto tranny for a 5 speed manual.:D

Hey man! I sorry if you took it the wrong way, I never said that auto is bad... Its kind of hard to announce gestures and sarcasm on the internet, don't take it negatively.

[musclecars4life]

Hey man! I sorry if you took it the wrong way, I never said that auto is bad... Its kind of hard to announce gestures and sarcasm on the internet, don't take it negatively.

im joking about the banning stuff..... i wouldn't do that unless flaming starts. i edited my original post so nobody else says what you did

[REDisFASTER]

im joking about the banning stuff..... i wouldn't do that unless flaming starts. i edited my original post so nobody else says what you did

Oh? Okay. But yes though, nothing wrong with an auto. My first car had an auto ;)

[RodsRUs]

The only one that should be made fun of for an auto-tranny and tuner combo is someone that bought it knowing that they were going to upgrade the engine..or someone that puts a tuner exhaust on an auto...thats reallyy stupid!

[musclecars4life]

or someone that puts a tuner exhaust on an auto...thats reallyy stupid!

well ive seen that!!!!!! and i have also seen a 4in Fart Bucket for a tuner on a 1965 impala. its looks ***

[RodsRUs]

and i have also seen a 4in Fart Bucket for a tuner on a 1965 impala. its looks ***
well you should have walked up and kick that guy in the balls....
but I would need to see that to honestly believe that

[DRFTKO]

well ive seen that!!!!!! and i have also seen a 4in Fart Bucket for a tuner on a 1965 impala. its looks ***


I think I have that beat, I seen a "bleacher" (large aluminum wing) on a Cutlass Cierra (not sure if i spelled all that right), that was down right discusting:nodno: :uhoh: :( . but anyways sorry to get off topic but i had to get that off my chest!!!

[musclecars4life]

well you should have walked up and kick that guy in the balls....
but I would need to see that to honestly believe that

well all i have to do is walk down the street and take a pic... only problem is they have been out of town and they drove that car... and im not meaning to be racist, but... the owner's of the car are Mexican.

[atruebudfan]

No stock Tuner could beat any stock Muscle. The any way it could happen is if the weight difference was huge and or the driver in the muscle just sucked.


Even is you tricked out the tuner, its going take A lot more time and money to get it up to par to the muscle.


But everyone to there own.

Muscle still owns though ;)

[RodsRUs]

well as much as I love muscle...
that statement is not true
a stock skyline GTR could take a stock 5.0 stang or Z28

[BlackSky909]

well as much as I love muscle...
that statement is not true
a stock skyline GTR could take a stock 5.0 stang or Z28
True that. 4WD rapage.

[musclecars4life]

well as much as I love muscle...
that statement is not true
a stock skyline GTR could take a stock 5.0 stang or Z28

though a mustang is more of a tuner car than a muscle car. you want muscle? try a stock Skiyline GT-R vs a stock Chevy Camaro SS/RS (only 169 made) the skyline my have AWD and 400stock hp, but the camaro is lighter, has 425-450hp (depending on version), in a track race OF course the skyline would own, but in a drag? not a chance.:nodno:

[sweetvette]

You know what, in the end, it doesn't matter if you've got a tuner, a muscle, or a muscle tuner, what matters is getting a W

[DRFTKO]

You know what, in the end, it doesn't matter if you've got a tuner, a muscle, or a muscle tuner, what matters is getting a W


you mean winner when you refer to "W" right?

[BlackSky909]

If this is the camaro I think it is it weighs 3800 and it will still get raped off the line and by the time it got going it might be too late.

[THE EDJ]

i guess thats true to a certain extent, but everyone has their own preference on how they would like to get that win

[DRFTKO]

i guess thats true to a certain extent, but everyone has their own preference on how they would like to get that win


yea true, Im happy that im bleased with a car period.:) :p :nod:

[BlackSky909]

yea true, Im happy that im bleased with a car period.:) :p :nod:
Yea that works.

[civic_guy]

oh no! your puttin 300hp into fwd honda! who cares? you put $50,000 into a $2000 car and for 30,000 you can get a brand new Pontiac Gto with 400hp.
The Gto was designed for 400 horses while the crx you want to supe up has out dated everything and was designed for fuel economy, not tokyo drifting!

Dude if you put 50,000 dollars in a honda you'd have over 1000 hp easily dpeneding on the engine. I can attain my 400whp goal with my B16a 2000 Si for about 6,000

There's civics here in Houston tuned by St00pidfast running over 700whp...if I can find videos i will....they're beasts. I can get my civic to 400whp for less than it would cost to buy a 4 door family car.

Moreover you can design any car to handle any type of horsepower. If the engine doesn't blow and the frame doesn't twist the car can handle it.

[DRFTKO]

Dude if you put 50,000 dollars in a honda you'd have over 1000 hp easily dpeneding on the engine. I can attain my 400whp goal with my B16a 2000 Si for about 6,000

There's civics here in Houston tuned by St00pidfast running over 700whp...if I can find videos i will....they're beasts. I can get my civic to 400whp for less than it would cost to buy a 4 door family car.


here in NC, we have a tuner shop, Speed Innovations that has built some nasty Hondas, and by the way, what are you doing to your Si for $6K?

[civic_guy]

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/46f45d76-a601-4061-8909-9824011899bc.htm


http://tunertrader.vidiac.com/recent...25012764d0.htm


Here are some vids of some of the meanest civics in Houston.
They are all tuned by St00pid fast.


Im gettin a Garret GT35R Turbo and the rest of the materials to Turbocharge my civic. 6k includes Tuning costs...I may or may not build my entire engine...I may just build the bottom end components that really need it because build the internals takes some serious cash probly another 5 or 6k but since Im only going for 450 whp max I only need to worry mostly about top end stuff. I'll eventually replace all the stock internals and such because I know Ill crave more boost. LOL It'll be 450 whp street legal and probly a daily driver for the most part. I'm not goin past 450 whp because after that it's impossible to get traction with a FWD in any gear and at almost any speed unless you do a lot more work.

[RodsRUs]

True that. 4WD rapage.
haha dude as much as we fight oncee or twice your prettyy funnyy haha
and too all the noobs....comeon your on an xmod fourm!!!!
why are you here if you know so much about cars..
yeahh there are a few on here that are as smart as me...but most are dumb *****...
you wana see my camaro just ask Ill post it and its all done up BB..

[civic_guy]

haha dude as much as we fight oncee or twice your prettyy funnyy haha
and too all the noobs....comeon your on an xmod fourm!!!!
why are you here if you know so much about cars..
yeahh there are a few on here that are as smart as me...but most are dumb *****...
you wana see my camaro just ask Ill post it and its all done up BB..

I'm on a car forum as well... houston-imports.com!!! :D

[musclecars4life]

You know what, in the end, it doesn't matter if you've got a tuner, a muscle, or a muscle tuner, what matters is getting a W

so true.

[Thriller]

ooo ok musclecars......but tuners rock !!!

[thrillbilly]

ill put it like this... it all depends on what you want/have to drive and how much cash your willing to drop into your ragged p.o.s., so who cares anyways racing is all about fun and going fast so who cares if your car is a tuner, or a muscle car? i drive a truck and i have speed+usefullness!!!!

[REDisFASTER]

Nahh, nahh, nahh... In real life, it really doesn't matter if another car is faster than yours, just as long as you're having fun with your car, that's all that matters!

That sounded quite corny... But its true!

[thrillbilly]

that pretty much what i just said....!

[REDisFASTER]

Yeah, I know. But I couldn't resist, its a classic quote :P

[Flat 4 Racing]

There's no replacement for displacement. Domestics FTW, all day, everyday. It's proven every weekend in Top Fuel.

Domestics will always be the kings of the dragstrip. Imports will always be the kings of the road circuit.

Truth be told, he who has the deepest pockets is he who wins.

[THE EDJ]

so whats faster, your camaro or your STi? im just curious

[Nissanshift350]

i love most all cars. i love some of the good tuners like the silvia and the rx7 and the supra, the 300zx. i like them for the fact that they are rwd. i hate honda civics and acura integras they are overated. everyone wants one and its lame. on xmods fwd is fun but in real life its just a waste. i am muscle all the way though. thereis nothing like the sound of a big 427 cubic inch cobra jet V8 sittin in a 68 Mercury Cougar borin down the freeway at 130 mph. ahh just beautifull. muscle cars have history and you cant find some tuner worth a quarter of a mill..... like maybe shelby cobra... MUSCLE ALL THE WAY

[Sweed]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate American cars. Wait. Yes I do....

I like Tuners... Kinda grew up with a Eurp-Tuner influence... And VTEC in the family... You can't beat an easy 200hp from a 2l engine, without the turbo. Stock. And you still get upwards of 30mph.... Chip it, do some engine work, and blow it, and it's probably an easy 300-400hp, for under 10,000.... In a light car such as the CRX or the civic.... Like a 79' Civic, with all 800kg....

Muscle has the big 7l motors, with no gas milage, and make plenty of low end power... But no top end, becuase they have such a low redline. That's why I like the motorcycle engines like in the Civics, and especialy the Rotary from Mazda. I mean common. 235hp stock, from a 1.3l motor? Add a turbo and again, chip it, and you have a mean 300hp+ motor, now drop that in an old skool civic or a mk1 golf, and you have a crazy power to weight ratio...

oh no! your puttin 300hp into fwd honda! who cares? you put $50,000 into a $2000 car and for 30,000 you can get a brand new Pontiac Gto with 400hp.
The Gto was designed for 400 horses while the crx you want to supe up has out dated everything and was designed for fuel economy, not tokyo drifting!

100hp doesn't cost $50,000 as far as I know. Do some research. The stock civic (EDM and JDM) comes with 198hp stock, and bumping that up 100hp shouldn't cost $50,000.... Blow the motor, do some work under the hood, exhust, use a s2k tranny, and make it rwd, for maybe $50,000, but even then, your still making $350hp+, and since it's vtec, you can program it for gas milage when going to work or school, and then for power when you go race...

[BlackSky909]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate American cars. Wait. Yes I do....

I like Tuners... Kinda grew up with a Eurp-Tuner influence... And VTEC in the family... You can't beat an easy 200hp from a 2l engine, without the turbo. Stock. And you still get upwards of 30mph.... Chip it, do some engine work, and blow it, and it's probably an easy 300-400hp, for under 10,000.... In a light car such as the CRX or the civic.... Like a 79' Civic, with all 800kg....

Muscle has the big 7l motors, with no gas milage, and make plenty of low end power... But no top end, becuase they have such a low redline. That's why I like the motorcycle engines like in the Civics, and especialy the Rotary from Mazda. I mean common. 235hp stock, from a 1.3l motor? Add a turbo and again, chip it, and you have a mean 300hp+ motor, now drop that in an old skool civic or a mk1 golf, and you have a crazy power to weight ratio...

I agree %100. 300+hp in like a 2500 pound is respectable by far.

[modman54935]

imports all the way!!! i mean they handeling in them are amazing and u can make um 500+ horse and still have um in control! just take a supra for example and they will blow the doors off of any muscle car!

[DRFTKO]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate American cars. Wait. Yes I do....

I like Tuners... Kinda grew up with a Eurp-Tuner influence... And VTEC in the family... You can't beat an easy 200hp from a 2l engine, without the turbo. Stock. And you still get upwards of 30mph.... Chip it, do some engine work, and blow it, and it's probably an easy 300-400hp, for under 10,000.... In a light car such as the CRX or the civic.... Like a 79' Civic, with all 800kg....

Muscle has the big 7l motors, with no gas milage, and make plenty of low end power... But no top end, becuase they have such a low redline. That's why I like the motorcycle engines like in the Civics, and especialy the Rotary from Mazda. I mean common. 235hp stock, from a 1.3l motor? Add a turbo and again, chip it, and you have a mean 300hp+ motor, now drop that in an old skool civic or a mk1 golf, and you have a crazy power to weight ratio...



100hp doesn't cost $50,000 as far as I know. Do some research. The stock civic (EDM and JDM) comes with 198hp stock, and bumping that up 100hp shouldn't cost $50,000.... Blow the motor, do some work under the hood, exhust, use a s2k tranny, and make it rwd, for maybe $50,000, but even then, your still making $350hp+, and since it's vtec, you can program it for gas milage when going to work or school, and then for power when you go race...

hmmm, are you referring to the S2K stroker by any chance?:nod:

[musclecars4life]

Drag Race:
1969 Camaro RS VS. Mustang Cobra SVT (Who wins?)

the Camaro of course. Why?

it was MADE for drag!!! a highly tuned and modified mustang cobra wont beat a camaro that has been modified (unless you count driver error) then the mustang MIGHT have a chance.

now you're asking "why you have 2 muscle cars pit up against each other?"

i DONT! the mustang cobra is a tuner...

thanks,
MC4L

[Life]

civic all the way i dont know if it tuner i guess

[Jizzle]

Drag Race:
1969 Camaro RS VS. Mustang Cobra SVT (Who wins?)

the Camaro of course. Why?

it was MADE for drag!!! a highly tuned and modified mustang cobra wont beat a camaro that has been modified and tuned (unless you count driver error) then the mustang MIGHT have a chance.

now you're asking "why you have 2 muscle cars pit up against each other?"

i DONT! the mustang cobra is a tuner...

thanks,
MC4L

i hope u no camaro RS mean rally sport witch is a show car BUT...... u could have got it with the SS upgrades with the RS acceceris(lol sp.) witvh one are u talken about?

[musclecars4life]

her is a pic of the camaro im talking about!

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/4359/1969chevroletcamarooj5.jpg

thanks,
MC4L

[DRFTKO]

Drag Race:
1969 Camaro RS VS. Mustang Cobra SVT (Who wins?)

the Camaro of course. Why?

it was MADE for drag!!! a highly tuned and modified mustang cobra wont beat a camaro that has been modified and tuned (unless you count driver error) then the mustang MIGHT have a chance.

now you're asking "why you have 2 muscle cars pit up against each other?"

i DONT! the mustang cobra is a tuner...
thanks,
MC4L

anything that can be "tunned" is considered to be a tuner, so in that case anything can be tunned:)

[THE EDJ]

hey MC4L, thats not a stock camaro, and theres a lot of tuner cars out there that could put out just as much power as that monster of a tank, or even if theres not as much power it would only weigh half as much and would still be VERY stiff competition

[musclecars4life]

hey MC4L, thats not a stock camaro, and theres a lot of tuner cars out there that could put out just as much power as that monster of a tank, or even if theres not as much power it would only weigh half as much and would still be VERY stiff competition

i know its not a stock camaro....

i do know that there are lots of cars out there capable of producing that kind of power, but most of them (unless the chassis has been highly braced) would twist in half when producing that much power.

i have seen a mustang cobra beat a camaro, only because tof driver error.

im not saying i could do any better, but i wouldn't even TRY drag racing a camaro with that kind of power as i would be enexpirienced with the car.

you all know my vote is Muscle cars when it comes to drag. but for everything else(ex. drift, track, rally, etc...) its tuners all the way!

thanks,
MC4L

[BlackSky909]

Drag Race:
1969 Camaro RS VS. Mustang Cobra SVT (Who wins?)

the Camaro of course. Why?

it was MADE for drag!!! a highly tuned and modified mustang cobra wont beat a camaro that has been modified (unless you count driver error) then the mustang MIGHT have a chance.

now you're asking "why you have 2 muscle cars pit up against each other?"

i DONT! the mustang cobra is a tuner...

thanks,
MC4L

Dude the next time you ride that 1969 Camaro RS's nuts. Im going to e-slap you. All you talk about it that ****.

[Nissanshift350]

u gotts remember pitting a svt cobra against a camaro like that just aint right. your right the svt cobra is a tuner car but did u forget about the SVT Cobra R? the R makes a diff. but anyway, anything newer than the early seventys aint mucsle. so any performance cars built from then on are tunners. i would take a 67 Shelby GT500 over any camaro.

[musclecars4life]

Dude the next time you ride that 1969 Camaro RS's nuts. Im going to e-slap you. All you talk about it that ****.

you ever heard of a favorite car?!!!!

:D1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS!:D

1969 Camaro RS BEATS ALL!

anyway..... i dont completely agree with your statement Nissanshift350

anything newer than the early seventys aint mucsle. so any performance cars built from then on are tunners.

there have been a few TRUE muscle cars made latter than 1970. look at the 1973 Pontiac Firebird (a friends owns one). thats got 425 stock hp and 350 stock ft lbs of torque. now thats a true muscle car.

and i never realy counted mustangs as muscle cars.... yes you see mustangs run 3 second ETs, but thats not really a MUSTANG engine anymore.

thanks,
MC4L

[THE EDJ]

what'd the five fingers say to the face?

SLAP!!!!!!!!!!!! get over that friggin car, no one really cares and you are getting off topic

[DRFTKO]

you ever heard of a favorite car?!!!!

:D1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS! 1969 Camaro RS!:D

1969 Camaro RS BEATS ALL!

anyway..... i dont completely agree with your statement Nissanshift350



there have been a few TRUE muscle cars made latter than 1970. look at the 1973 Pontiac Firebird (a friends owns one). thats got 425 stock hp and 350 stock ft lbs of torque. now thats a true muscle car.

and i never realy counted mustangs as muscle cars.... yes you see mustangs run 3 second ETs, but thats not really a MUSTANG engine anymore.

thanks,
MC4L

sorry to get off topic, but you also forgot the Buick Grand National:bigwink:

[Numbchux]

sorry to get off topic, but you also forgot the Buick Grand National:bigwink:

not a muscle car. I've never seen a GN put down a decent torque curve.

it aint a muscle car unless its torque curve peaks at less than 2500 rpms.


but I don't care about drag racing. I care about handling, mileage, and reliability. domestics have been nothing but a disappointment in that regard. give me something with well-designed suspension, low CG, low total weight (3000 lbs is a tank IMHO), and a motor that can still run at 250k miles or more (my EJ22 has almost that many miles, and runs like new, with like-new compression....and this summer I'm going to throw some belt-driven boost at it).

[Flat 4 Racing]

so whats faster, your camaro or your STi? im just curious

Honestly, the wife and I took both of them out one day and dragged them. They ran side by side the entire way down the road up to over 100 mph when we let off.

Stock, my Camaro was rated at 275 hp/325 lb-ft tq. The STi at 300 hp/300 lb-ft stock. However, with the new horsepower rating system, the STi is only rated at 293 hp, and I'm not sure about torque numbers. I'll break it down.

1994 Camaro
Power: 275 hp/325 lb-ft tq
Weight: Approximately 3400-3500 lbs
Gearing: 3.23s
Modifications: 2400 rpm stall converter, shift kit, transmission cooler, polyurethane transmission mount, PCM tune, LT4 knock module, 3 inch cat-back exhaust, cold air intake, polyurethane suspension bushings

2005 Impreza WRX STi
Power: 300hp/300 lb-ft tq
Weight: Approximately 3300 lbs
Gearing: 4.xx
Modifications: Stage 1 ECU tune (rated from tuner at 320 hp/ 340 lb-ft tq), K&N drop-in air filter

Keep in mind that the parasitic loss is worse for the STi due to the AWD. My STi dynoed at 242 hp/ 272 lb-ft tq with the afformentioned mods.

Most LT1 Camaros are trapping anywhere between 13.8-14.3 on average, depending on options and drivetrains. Obviously, there is less parasitic loss and a steeper gearing for the 6spd Manuals (3.42 vs. 3.23). With nothing more than an exhaust, a buddy of mine with a 1993 (6spd) trapped 13.65 @ 105 mph (factory freak), but he could also drive his butt off.

Magazines claim that the STis are running in the 13.30-13.50 range at around 103 mph, but I'm yet to see one trap better than a 13.70 @ 102 mph in stock trim, save for one stocker (another factory freak) that trapped a high 12.90 @ 104 mph. Gotta love AWD.

Off the dig I'm going to give the victory to the STi, but off a roll, I'm going with the Camaro. The Camaros just simply make more power up top, thanks in large part to their V8 torque.

Things change with the update to the LS1 motor in the 1998 Camaros. The 1998 Camaros still weren't much quicker than the previous LT1 motors, as they had some teething issues, but the 2001-2002 models are a different animal. The 2001-2002 Camaros will tear STis a new one, regardless if it's in a 1/4 mile or otherwise. Sure, it's going to play "catch-up" off the dig to the STi's AWD advantage, but at the end, the STi's going to be getting a full view of Camaro license plate.

My honest picks- Wanna go fast, buy American. Wanna hang corners, buy Japanese.

[vzereeys]

What happens when you put a muscle car engine in a tuner?
For example the miata. A lot of miata enthusiasts swap their factory 4 cylinder 1.6/1.8 L engine for a 8 cylinder 5.0 L ford mustang engine producing at least 255 hp. Slap a supercharger to that sucker and bam, you got a car weighing in at 2600 lbs producing at least 300 hp to the wheels. I'm pretty sure you could get 300 hp from a stock miata with a boost but it comes with a price; a lot of torque is lost.

[Flat 4 Racing]

What happens when you put a muscle car engine in a tuner?
For example the miata. A lot of miata enthusiasts swap their factory 4 cylinder 1.6/1.8 L engine for a 8 cylinder 5.0 L ford mustang engine producing at least 255 hp. Slap a supercharger to that sucker and bam, you got a car weighing in at 2600 lbs producing at least 300 hp to the wheels. I'm pretty sure you could get 300 hp from a stock miata with a boost but it comes with a price; a lot of torque is lost.

What happens when you put a muscle car engine in a Miata? Check out the MegaMonster Miata.

No doubt, power/weight ratio is important, but why do you think a Bugatti Veyron weighs over 4000 lbs? Is a 2600 lb car going to stick to the asphalt at 253 mph? At high speeds, a low-weight car is going to get quite squirrely, hence the reasoning behind downforce, which is essentially adding weight back on to the car.

Not to mention, you take your average teenie-bopper ricer Civic with their typical triple-tiered rear spoiler, and what's that do? That just causes the front end to get loose, and do you really want rear lift in a FWD car? I don't think so. Stupid ricers.

Take the typical RWD import car, and aside from the 3rd Generation RX-7, Toyota MR-2, and Honda/Acura NSX, they weigh a ton. Here are just a few that you can buy in America.

Supra- 3450+ lbs
3000 GT VR4- 3700-3800 lbs
300ZX TT- 3500-3600 lbs
350Z- 3400+ lbs

You talk about putting a muscle car motor in an import. With some cars that's a very popular swap, especially with the RX-7s and old Datsun Z cars. But, here's the problem. Can you fit a domestic Big Block into ANY of those cars? Quite possibly, you might fit one under the hood of a Supra, but I don't see it happening with the rest of them.

While the domestics go for big torque and big horsepower out of big engines, the Japanese counterparts prefer to go with "equalizers," which in this case are turbochargers.

Take a Supra, for example. You can get 700-800 hp out of a stock bottom-ended 2JZE engine, but it's going to cost you. There are already Shelby GTs out on the street belting out over 700-800 hp on about $2000-$3000 of upgrades and running 9s in the 1/4. The last generation of SVT supercharged Cobras are also beasts, and have a weight advantage over the Shelby by about 300-400 lbs, and they're not light, at weighing nearly 3650 lbs. With nothing more than a pulley, exhaust, cold air intake, and a tune, the SVTs are belting out nearly 500 AT THE WHEELS.

Power/weight ratio is only going to take you so far. There are many other variables to consider, such as where the meat of an engine's torque curve lies, gear ratio, aerodynamics, etc.

[civic_guy]

What happens when you put a muscle car engine in a Miata? Check out the MegaMonster Miata.

No doubt, power/weight ratio is important, but why do you think a Bugatti Veyron weighs over 4000 lbs? Is a 2600 lb car going to stick to the asphalt at 253 mph? At high speeds, a low-weight car is going to get quite squirrely, hence the reasoning behind downforce, which is essentially adding weight back on to the car.

Not to mention, you take your average teenie-bopper ricer Civic with their typical triple-tiered rear spoiler, and what's that do? That just causes the front end to get loose, and do you really want rear lift in a FWD car? I don't think so. Stupid ricers.

Take the typical RWD import car, and aside from the 3rd Generation RX-7, Toyota MR-2, and Honda/Acura NSX, they weigh a ton. Here are just a few that you can buy in America.

Supra- 3450+ lbs
3000 GT VR4- 3700-3800 lbs
300ZX TT- 3500-3600 lbs
350Z- 3400+ lbs

You talk about putting a muscle car motor in an import. With some cars that's a very popular swap, especially with the RX-7s and old Datsun Z cars. But, here's the problem. Can you fit a domestic Big Block into ANY of those cars? Quite possibly, you might fit one under the hood of a Supra, but I don't see it happening with the rest of them.

While the domestics go for big torque and big horsepower out of big engines, the Japanese counterparts prefer to go with "equalizers," which in this case are turbochargers.

Take a Supra, for example. You can get 700-800 hp out of a stock bottom-ended 2JZE engine, but it's going to cost you. There are already Shelby GTs out on the street belting out over 700-800 hp on about $2000-$3000 of upgrades and running 9s in the 1/4. The last generation of SVT supercharged Cobras are also beasts, and have a weight advantage over the Shelby by about 300-400 lbs, and they're not light, at weighing nearly 3650 lbs. With nothing more than a pulley, exhaust, cold air intake, and a tune, the SVTs are belting out nearly 500 AT THE WHEELS.

Power/weight ratio is only going to take you so far. There are many other variables to consider, such as where the meat of an engine's torque curve lies, gear ratio, aerodynamics, etc.

This is the fastest GT500 I could find... 10.997 1/4 mile
www.dragtimes.com/2007-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500-Videos-10194.html - 12k -

As for you only spending 2-3 grand to get this car into the 9's....I say bs unless you have major hook-ups. The GT500 is a tank and to get it into the 9's is gonna take some major cash, unless of course (like I said earlier), you get some major hook-ups.

[Sweed]

it aint a muscle car unless its torque curve peaks at less than 2500 rpms.


and it aint a muscle car unless its redline is over 5500 rpms....

Seriously. The Civic and the Mazda Rotary have redlines at 7000 rpm... That's good for a bit extra hp... and the civic can programed to put out well over enough torque for it's weight....

Personaly, I want a Corrado VR6 3.2l... That's good for enough power..... Drop it into a Vdub Golf mk1. It will just sing in there... Or a R32 Twin Turbo Audi TT... Power...

On the other hand, my grandma's car does low 9's, and high 8's on he 1/8 mile. But it should do pretty good on the 1/4..... What... a 3l with 290hp and still get's good gas milage, all running on 30% ethonal, 70% gasoline...

[civic_guy]

My 2000 si redlines at 8k rpm :D and after i graduate college (2 more semesters) it'll be TURBOCHARGED. :)

[Numbchux]

and it aint a muscle car unless its redline is over 5500 rpms....

Seriously. The Civic and the Mazda Rotary have redlines at 7000 rpm... That's good for a bit extra hp... and the civic can programed to put out well over enough torque for it's weight....

what?! most muscle cars redline at 6k or less.

and civics and rotaries aren't muscle cars.

you're contradicting yourself there buddy.


My car redlines at 6k. but with the torque curve of the legacy 2.2 (and the heavy flywheel and pulley combo I'm running), I never shift after 5k. with my 2500 lb wagon, it just isn't necessary. and this summer, throw about 5psi of supercharged boost at it...and it'll probably hit 150 awtq by 3k rpms. I don't care where the redline is.


what happens when you put an 800lb cast iron motor in a 2600 lb car. it handles like TOTAL CRAP!!!! ever heard of something called balance? I've screwed mine up enough by putting that 2.2 in my loyale....I'm probably going to end up relocating my battery to the rear of the car to combat that.

[Flat 4 Racing]

This is the fastest GT500 I could find... 10.997 1/4 mile
www.dragtimes.com/2007-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500-Videos-10194.html - 12k -

As for you only spending 2-3 grand to get this car into the 9's....I say bs unless you have major hook-ups. The GT500 is a tank and to get it into the 9's is gonna take some major cash, unless of course (like I said earlier), you get some major hook-ups.

You can say "BS" all you like. Just check out the specs on that motor. It's nowhere near maxed out from the factory. It's basically the same motor as the one found in the Ford GT, save for a different head design. I forget who the company was, but just through basic bolt-ons, a pulley, and a tune, they made over 700 hp on the Ford GT. The best part about it is that you can get one of these cars for under $200,000. Good news, if you have $200,000.

My 2000 si redlines at 8k rpm :D and after i graduate college (2 more semesters) it'll be TURBOCHARGED. :)

Congrats. For all your efforts (and money) you'll be making about 300 at the wheels if you're lucky. If you wanna go quick, go ahead and do it. If you wanna go fast, build up a domestic.

[civic_guy]

Congrats. For all your efforts (and money) you'll be making about 300 at the wheels if you're lucky. If you wanna go quick, go ahead and do it. If you wanna go fast, build up a domestic.

WTF??? 300 if I'm lucky???

GT35R turbo from Garret, Precision intercooler, BOV, wastegate, custom turbo manifold...etc etc. 300 whp is EASY and that's WITH stock internals. You obviously don't know much about imports. 300 whp is actually my starting goal...my future goal is 450 whp which with a built bottom end will be no problem. As for money. 450 whp and a built bottom end will cost me no more that 5 or 6 grand. My car as a whole cost me 12 so for less than 20 grand I can keep up with cars over 50 grand.

Here's you some videos...
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/46f45d76-a601-4061-8909-9824011899bc.htm

http://tunertrader.vidiac.com/recentvideos/0/86e1bd49-f596-44ed-b700-9825012764d0.htm

Keep in mind that most of these civics are running STOCK internals. I still can't find it documented where a GT500 has made it into the 9's...so if you can send me a link that would be great and I didn't say anything about the potential of the motor...you said there are already GT500s running 9's...that's what I'm saying bs to. I'd love for you to prove me wrong though....I enjoy watching a sub 10 sec car no matter what make or model. :)

I like ALL cars but your attitude is what makes me dislike those behind the wheels of muscle cars. Oh and Ford can make 700hp all they want...Supras for less than $125,000 can make over 1000hp...and I'm not talking about the dyno queens.

Good job on double posting too. :)

[DRFTKO]

please quit double posting "Flat 4 Racing". Read the Rules. Thanks

[sweetvette]

I like ALL cars

hey me too!!
Oh and how does your civic handle, cuz it's fwd. i'm just curious cuz you plan to turbo it. one last thing, what kinda stuff have you done to your engine already?

[Flat 4 Racing]

please quit double posting "Flat 4 Racing". Read the Rules. Thanks

WHere did I double-post? :-?

[BlackSky909]

WHere did I double-post? :-?

A few posts up, you have received an infraction for it. Go read the rules before you go any further.

[Flat 4 Racing]

WTF??? 300 if I'm lucky???

GT35R turbo from Garret, Precision intercooler, BOV, wastegate, custom turbo manifold...etc etc. 300 whp is EASY and that's WITH stock internals. You obviously don't know much about imports. 300 whp is actually my starting goal...my future goal is 450 whp which with a built bottom end will be no problem. As for money. 450 whp and a built bottom end will cost me no more that 5 or 6 grand. My car as a whole cost me 12 so for less than 20 grand I can keep up with cars over 50 grand.

Here's you some videos...
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/46f45d76-a601-4061-8909-9824011899bc.htm

http://tunertrader.vidiac.com/recentvideos/0/86e1bd49-f596-44ed-b700-9825012764d0.htm

Keep in mind that most of these civics are running STOCK internals. I still can't find it documented where a GT500 has made it into the 9's...so if you can send me a link that would be great and I didn't say anything about the potential of the motor...you said there are already GT500s running 9's...that's what I'm saying bs to. I'd love for you to prove me wrong though....I enjoy watching a sub 10 sec car no matter what make or model. :)

I like ALL cars but your attitude is what makes me dislike those behind the wheels of muscle cars. Oh and Ford can make 700hp all they want...Supras for less than $125,000 can make over 1000hp...and I'm not talking about the dyno queens.

Good job on double posting too. :)

Why would I have an attitude? I own both, an import and a domestic. Civics running stock internals on turbos don't last very long. A Supra that makes 1000 hp costs some serious coin. It's not a case of just bolting on a huge turbo, exhaust, and intake and driving away.

[civic_guy]

Why would I have an attitude? I own both, an import and a domestic. Civics running stock internals on turbos don't last very long. A Supra that makes 1000 hp costs some serious coin. It's not a case of just bolting on a huge turbo, exhaust, and intake and driving away.

They last very long if you take care of them. I have a friend who owns a black teg w/ gold gramlights. 400+ whp stock internals and he's been daily driving it for 4 years now with absolutely no problems. And of course it's not about bolting parts on...a good tune makes a turbo set-up...tuning should always be #1 when you budget for a turbocharger because that'll make the difference between lasting and a blown engine. A supra with 1000 hp will run in the 125 grand range...and of course that's serious coin. But i guarentee you'll spend more on a GT500 to get it over the 1000 hp mark (hence why it has yet to be achieved) just because the supra has more aftermarket support....and soon as the GT500 has been out a while and the research and developement has been completed 8's and 9's will be considered sub-par im sure.

[Flat 4 Racing]

They last very long if you take care of them. I have a friend who owns a black teg w/ gold gramlights. 400+ whp stock internals and he's been daily driving it for 4 years now with absolutely no problems. And of course it's not about bolting parts on...a good tune makes a turbo set-up...tuning should always be #1 when you budget for a turbocharger because that'll make the difference between lasting and a blown engine. A supra with 1000 hp will run in the 125 grand range...and of course that's serious coin. But i guarentee you'll spend more on a GT500 to get it over the 1000 hp mark (hence why it has yet to be achieved) just because the supra has more aftermarket support....and soon as the GT500 has been out a while and the research and developement has been completed 8's and 9's will be considered sub-par im sure.

Sorry, it's not going to be more expensive than a Supra to hit 1000 hp. As I mentioned before, the Shelby GT has essentially the same motor as the Ford GT, save for the heads, and those motors are nowhere near maxed out from the factory. These motors are EASILY making over 700 hp on stock internals. These aren't your average blocks. These blocks are built with very high quality parts. While on this subject, a domestic Big Block motor can make 1000 hp for about $15,000.

[Numbchux]

That's enough of that.

they're different, it's a matter of personal preference.

but, since you people can't just agree to disagree...http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c108/Numbchux/Smilies/lockd.gif