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color0
08-26-2008, 07:30 PM
... Is now available for preorder!

Yes it's been over a year but the end result was well worth it!

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/8620/presentation023sax1.jpg

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/7243/presentation025sqm4.jpg

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/1243/presentation035sqn6.jpg

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2359/presentation034shn6.jpg

Full information can be found on the MRCG page at our site:

http://www.greyscaleracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=10&Itemid=12

(Mods, let me know if this link is inappropriate, but I think it should be okay.)

The first run is limited to 25 kits so if you wanted to buy one when I first showed the CADs and prototype pictures, now is your time to act. :) The car is available exclusively through TinyRC at the moment so visit their shop to preorder -- the MRCG is the top featured product so it's easy to spot. Use the coupon code "MRCG1" when you purchase for instant $20 off (valid thru August 29). ;)

Cheers!
color0

TheB1GDude
08-26-2008, 07:42 PM
Wow man! That is uber cool! I'm fine with your link!!

Dr. Kustom
08-26-2008, 08:08 PM
This chassis is looking sexy! Great job on it mate!

Donziikid
08-26-2008, 08:13 PM
Congradulations, Color0! :)

You certainly did a great job taking a thought into reality and being able to produce kits for the community to enjoy. Mass kudos, bro. :bigwink:

greekone
08-26-2008, 08:50 PM
So you are only going to be selling them through MZR?

Sweed
08-26-2008, 09:23 PM
Second link (GSR to MZR) isn't loading quick for me, but how much before the discount?
Won't have money right now (just got rims!), but I would love to pre-order on in the future.

LOOKS GOOD!

xmodzracer
08-26-2008, 09:42 PM
that is absolutely amazing.

xmodkidd33
08-26-2008, 09:59 PM
Wow, great work. I guess I should start dedicating myself to a project like you, color0, instead of just throwing it aside and forgetting about it.

mini-z drift
08-26-2008, 10:10 PM
So this is kinda like the TGR Sinister but better huh?

I bet it is. I really enjoyed reading through the wip stages of this project and watching the vidoes. Looks great and good luck on the sales :D.

2wdpancar
08-26-2008, 10:32 PM
Sweed, the order is 129.99 through tinyrc, before the coupon code.
This will probably kill the tgr, I will do some tests, as the setups will be kinda close (low turn brushed, etc..)

color0
08-26-2008, 11:53 PM
Greek- The preorder is TinyRC exclusive. After that, if everything goes as planned, it will be global, but a little bit more expensive. So this preorder is your single chance to get the best possible deal on an MRCG. ;)

Sweed- You have three days left to use that $20 coupon code and get a car for $109.99. :)


I've seen both TGR cars (Sinister and S2) in person and I'm confident that the MRCG can outperform them both. I believe my car should be easier to tune as well, and besides, being able to run both 98MM and 94MM Autoscale bodies without visible modification is going to be a big factor for more casual customers.


Anyways, thanks for the comments everyone! Although I would really be happiest if you guys would help me out and preorder an MRCG each. ;)

mini-z drift
08-27-2008, 08:11 AM
Doubt I would be able to. Not enough money lol.

Classiclover
08-27-2008, 08:20 AM
I really wish I had the money to get this. Sure I have nobody to race against, but it's one of the best RC chassis's that I've ever seen.

RedSXmodder
08-27-2008, 09:42 AM
Looks waaayyy out of my league, lol...

AJB32690
08-27-2008, 11:07 AM
Oh man! Why did you decide to come out with this the week after I start college? After books and my laptop, Im broke...

If I had the hundred, I would be all over that chassis!

meme405
08-27-2008, 02:29 PM
I have the money, in hand at that and it is a sweet chassis. But without that many people to race as often an onroad for that much just isnt worth it for me. Which is why i sold my mini-z's.

Needless to say if you do want to be competitive at racing onroad at this scale that chassis is out out this world. and way worth over 150... so at 109 thats a steal...

taiwanesekid05
08-27-2008, 08:38 PM
Do you think you'll ever build an RTR version of this? Or would it cost too much.
And could you please, pleaseeee make a chasis for the Evo Xmods... The MRCG is badass as it is now...

color0
08-31-2008, 03:20 AM
A RTR version would be way over the top and probably in the wrong market to begin with. Most people looking for this kind of chassis will end up swapping almost all the parts out of an RTR, even if I built it up with nothing but the best hop-ups to begin with.

And no Xmods version, lol... most of the problems with Xmods are to be addressed in the little mechanical parts, I can't do anything about that by making a new base chassis.

Btw, August 29 has obviously passed so for the next week, the offer is $10 off by using the "MRCG2" coupon code. Thanks!

color0
12-14-2008, 09:30 PM
Long time since I updated. :)

Just in time for the kits to arrive at the Mini-ZRacer Shop (as well as Christmas-season Z racing!), I took some of the production aluminum parts and slapped them onto my car. Granted, there isn't alot of aluminum on the chassis to show off -- that's why it's so darn light -- but there's enough to give everyone a preview of the production car.

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9018/img0170bt5.jpg

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/8742/img0174tu5.jpg

^ I haven't installed the production rear pod bulkheads yet (need to pick up some ride height adjusters! lol...) but here's the most intricate part, the motor mount:

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/4072/img0173qj7.jpg


And to keep up to date setup-wise, I bought a 2007 Super GT 350Z shell and mounted it up to the chassis.

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/1423/img0164md3.jpg

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/1748/img0165oj8.jpg

I opted to stretch it out to a 98mm wheelbase as the MRCG has a better weight distribution in 98mm config. I left most of the rear diffuser on as well (just shaved off the bottoms of the fins) for a bit more weight at the rear. The car is still just 172g -- very light -- so keeping a bit of weight in the tail end will help with traction when I go to Inside Line and Fast Pace Racing. Wheels are PN, 1N/2W, and tires are Kyosho 30d radials and 20d radials.


As I had heard from arch2b, this shell takes some work to fit, so I documented some of the important bits. The 2007 SGT 350Z has some very strange new side clips that interfere with the MRCG's flex plates, so the solution is to simply cut away the excess plastic on those clips until they look like "regular" Mini-Z side clips.

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/9384/img0176yu0.jpg

When you glue them on, leave a 1mm gap between the clip and the stopping notch on the shell (in other words, lower the clips 1mm from Kyosho specs). This 350Z sits strangely low in the rear so we need to raise it back up.

Then dremel some more plastic off the insides and you'll have enough clearance for the MRCG's suspension system.

http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/803/img0177we2.jpg


That's all for now, and yes the kits are finally shipping!

kendallcschm
12-14-2008, 10:02 PM
its an import but its awesome!!! you spent alot of time and money doing this

Donziikid
12-14-2008, 10:11 PM
They certainly do look amazing, Color! Awesome job from start to finish! :D

mustang-04
12-14-2008, 10:13 PM
amazing .. this is all your design?

ive been checking that site for awhile now but they never have any rtr mr-02s in stock ..

Skv012a
12-14-2008, 11:21 PM
Great chassis, but holy * does it cost.

XMDrifter
12-14-2008, 11:58 PM
holey carap!
i need to get working...lol
i'm xmods strictly cause i'm poor, but if i had enough money...
the chassis looks great. and i'm loving that shell (though its got too many fins for my taste)
179g is really light...
i can't wait to see that thing run. it'll be a beast!lol

Skv012a
12-15-2008, 02:17 AM
If you're poor, then pour your $ into 1 golden car instead of several rusty buckets :P

torredo
12-15-2008, 02:32 AM
couldnt have said that any better myself^^
for real, if a guy wants a true racer then pull the wallet out and start diggin'

MRCG is on my list of goodies for the MR02 but itll still be awhile yet seeing as i just bought a winter beater for 1000.00. lol

XMDrifter
12-15-2008, 03:16 PM
well, i'm not even pouring money into my xmod. i only spent about 75 bucks on mine
and i can't make big purchases. and i can't save the money cuz my parents won't let me save it up for something big.

mini-z drift
12-15-2008, 05:35 PM
I'm planning on buying one soon, maybe after christmas. Would those aluminum pieces by on it?

color0
12-15-2008, 09:46 PM
Haha, thanks for all the comments guys.

Money-wise, my car is indeed more expensive than an Xmod, but once you get into competitive Z racing, the cost difference becomes relatively small. In fact, you could put together a competitive MRCG for less that what it would take to build a competitive Mini-Z AWD -- and on most RCP tracks the MRCG would be faster. :)

The whole thing from start to finish was my design, and for most of the project duration I was CNC machining my own parts. Just that now I'm trying to sell these things and introduce them to the market, so I enlisted the aid of Exotek Racing and PN Racing for the production kits. :)

And yes, these aluminum parts are going to be on the production cars. I tested them a bit today, they stiffen up the car's structure a bit compared to my prototype parts. Extremely crisp handling; I can't wait to go racing again!

FloydfanYodaman
12-15-2008, 11:35 PM
amazing chassis, way to may an idea into a reality i am jealous, wish i had the ching to shell out for one of these babies...

XMDrifter
12-16-2008, 11:24 AM
any way, would you like to give me a few calculations/tips for my development project for another xmod chassis?

color0
12-17-2008, 12:46 AM
I have no idea wtf you're doing, lol... what kind of advice should I offer other than to measure carefully? :)



Conducted some proper testing today. First thing to do was to finish replacing my old prototype parts with production aluminum ones. These rear pod bulkheads go together with Atomic's ride height adjusters (included in every kit).

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/8046/img0184cu9.jpg

Looks much more professional now, if not for the treaded rubber tires you could almost mistake this for a 12th-scale pan car.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/7083/img0181na6.jpg

The best part is that the new additions really improved the feel of the car! Thanks to the new 350Z shell there's a bit more weight in the rear end and very good traction (despite near-freezing temperatures at the track). Plus, the stiffness of all the aluminum parts (vs. my Delrin prototypes) makes the entire car feel more buttoned-down and responsive. Almost too responsive, actually -- I was turning in too early for the first 10 laps! :blush:

Once I got the hang of it I put down some pretty fast laps. I had turned down my throttle settings for practice so I got easily smoked on the straights, but I was definitely the 1st or 2nd fastest car in the infield, technical section.

Inside Line Racing's current layout is actually very good for the MRCG. The car handles transitions/chicanes extraordinarily well, and the current layout has 3 sets of those in succession. I still can't get over how smoothly and quickly it can get through the chicanes, it puts a nice little grin on my face every time. :) That means I'm smiling 3 times a lap, for nearly 50 laps per pack. :D

xmodkidd33
12-17-2008, 07:31 PM
Looks amazing, Color. I'm glad to see this all come through.

XMDrifter
12-17-2008, 09:14 PM
it all just looks so coordinated.
how about posting up batt-pack tutorials?

anyways, i'ma gonna try to design an xmod pan-car chassis that uses the stock rear gearbox and some custom stuff up front. i'll beed a few pointers though.
that' what i was asking.

color0
12-18-2008, 12:06 AM
MK2kompressor has a nice battery pack tutorial written up on our GSR homepage. It's long, so go find it yourself. :)

---------------------------------

Went testing again with two changes to the car, an anti-roll bar in front and properly mounted rear tires. I was definitely going faster than yesterday, there was just so much steering and corner speed I almost couldn't help but push the car to see how much more it could give.

Eventually, my rear tires wore out so I started to spin and slide in the high speed sections, so I changed out for some updated tires which gave me too much grip and ruined my sweet setup, lol. I'm going to have to play some more with my suspension to take care of this issue. That and now I need new front tires. :)

torredo
12-18-2008, 12:26 AM
****it color0, i gotta get this thing soon!! makes me completely forget about xmods when i see a product like your MRCG man.

XMDrifter
12-18-2008, 01:25 AM
you run through tires fast...
lol i wish xmods could even run through tires.lol
i saw the tut.
i guess i'll be maing my own tut when i get my xmod chassis back from fiberworkz

color0
12-18-2008, 01:58 AM
They're in stock and shipping, Torr, why not get yourself a nice Christmas present? :)

I usually try to look for tires that won't run down in a day or two, but 1) I'm using a 31t handwound on a very tight, fast track and 2) Kyosho 20deg radials are just too good not to use. I'm using PN 6deg treaded tires now but they have too much grip, so I will have to turn them into slicks before the big race on Saturday. :D

torredo
12-18-2008, 02:04 AM
believe me when i say this color0......
if i didnt just have to buy a winter car i would have opted for this MRCG bro'.
im out 1200.00 now after the car, plate fees, registration fees, and a few parts to get it goin for thw winter.

Hmmmmmmm?

TripleXmodder(akaXXX)
12-18-2008, 06:16 PM
Greek- The preorder is TinyRC exclusive. After that, if everything goes as planned, it will be global, but a little bit more expensive. So this preorder is your single chance to get the best possible deal on an MRCG. ;)

Sweed- You have three days left to use that $20 coupon code and get a car for $109.99. :)


I've seen both TGR cars (Sinister and S2) in person and I'm confident that the MRCG can outperform them both. I believe my car should be easier to tune as well, and besides, being able to run both 98MM and 94MM Autoscale bodies without visible modification is going to be a big factor for more casual customers.

Anyways, thanks for the comments everyone! Although I would really be happiest if you guys would help me out and preorder an MRCG each. ;)

Let me start off by saying, I really love this product and think that it is just amazing. Also I am no stranger to manufacturing costs (unless you make a large quantity run, it can kill you. Because your product will cost alot more then its target consumors are willing to pay) I believe this is the case with this product. Keep in mind you get only the chassis for 129$ (109$) everything you see in the photos is not included. In fact most everything you need to buy to get what is in the picture will cost you another 100$ +. Carbon Fiber and cutting is very expensive, and again without really making a leep and having hundreds made at once it will be to expensive. Consider a top rated Mini-Z RTR (with everything even a transmitter) is only just above this cost (and you said the price will go up ???)
Okay I really want one of these (and you could sell alot I believe with a MUCH smaller cost) But 129$ is rediculous unless maybe everything in the picture was included even batterries.

***PS. you told sweed he had 2 days left to get a CAR.. ??? I thought it was a chassis.

***PSS. If I am off base or incorrect on what the product includes I will gladly edit this post. And I am just making an assesment and have no problems with color0. Nice looking chassis, good work (I saw this chassis and wanted one, then was shocked at the price)

XMDrifter
12-18-2008, 10:33 PM
it's definitely true that mass production makes costs go down, but really, who has the money to make 1000 copies of the chassis in one order?

color0
12-19-2008, 02:56 AM
XXX, You are right and not quite right all in the same line. :p If you feel like reading my thought process, please continue, but if not, save yourself the eyestrain because it's lengthy. ;)

Our original pricing was for $129.99 because it was necessary to offset the costs of making all the parts in the USA (Penguin RC and Exotek Racing). But with delays and that pricing problem -- I didn't like it either! -- I said screw it and went with PN Racing to help me make the chassis, which brings us down to the current chassis-only price of $109.99. And I'm barely breaking even.

Consider 1/12 pan cars: they sell for $250 because people are willing to spend on a machine that handles great, looks great, and can win races. Because the MRCG's tiny, though, customers expect the cost to scale down. Not so. 1/12 pan cars don't cost much more than an MRCG to produce. Smaller parts are harder and more expensive to manufacture. And take a look at the dNano, which is 1/43, has a plastic chassis, and is barely more than half the size of the MRCG. It costs about $250 (!) to get one running. It's also produced in a very small batch, which 1) hikes up manufacturing costs and 2) hikes up the "exclusivity factor". The MRCG is in the exact same situation, which is why it sells for $109.99.

Though you may not think so, there are plenty of people who consider the MRCG an absolute steal. The TGR Sinister (a pan chassis from last year) costs about $95 but requires hours of modification before it can even drive properly. The Pro-Z V8 costs $130, and the InZane P28 (Europe's premier pan chassis) costs a healthy $160 for the same chassis-only package. None of those chassis can compete with mine on RCP, which makes the $110 MRCG worth it for my target customers.

Plus, RC Driver -- possibly THE most widely read RC magazine -- is reviewing the MRCG. And if it's a positive review, then there are plenty of people out there who want the latest cool thing and will spend the money to get it. And then, (please forgive me for being overly blunt) I really don't need to care if one or two people think it's too expensive. ;)


So to sum it up, 1) There's not much room to push down the price, 2) the current price is a good place to be, and 3) I actually don't need to worry about sales, as long as I think for the longer term.

torredo
12-19-2008, 03:09 AM
easiest way to say it color0.....try and make your own custom stuff and see what it looks like, how much it costs and the time put into it. Then you may appreciate a product costing 150.00 such as the MRCG chassis. Ive made my own custom clodcrawler, custom Xmod chassis, etc.... and understand what it takes to make something from scratch to only realize a true product made under CNC or such is much nicer to look at if your looking for the customization aswell as the bling factor.

way to go buddie! i love the mrcg and see NO problem with the cost you slapped on it.

TripleXmodder(akaXXX)
12-19-2008, 01:22 PM
XXX, You are right and not quite right all in the same line. :p If you feel like reading my thought process, please continue, but if not, save yourself the eyestrain because it's lengthy. ;)

Our original pricing was for $129.99 because it was necessary to offset the costs of making all the parts in the USA (Penguin RC and Exotek Racing). But with delays and that pricing problem -- I didn't like it either! -- I said screw it and went with PN Racing to help me make the chassis, which brings us down to the current chassis-only price of $109.99. And I'm barely breaking even.

Consider 1/12 pan cars: they sell for $250 because people are willing to spend on a machine that handles great, looks great, and can win races. Because the MRCG's tiny, though, customers expect the cost to scale down. Not so. 1/12 pan cars don't cost much more than an MRCG to produce. Smaller parts are harder and more expensive to manufacture. And take a look at the dNano, which is 1/43, has a plastic chassis, and is barely more than half the size of the MRCG. It costs about $250 (!) to get one running. It's also produced in a very small batch, which 1) hikes up manufacturing costs and 2) hikes up the "exclusivity factor". The MRCG is in the exact same situation, which is why it sells for $109.99.

Though you may not think so, there are plenty of people who consider the MRCG an absolute steal. The TGR Sinister (a pan chassis from last year) costs about $95 but requires hours of modification before it can even drive properly. The Pro-Z V8 costs $130, and the InZane P28 (Europe's premier pan chassis) costs a healthy $160 for the same chassis-only package. None of those chassis can compete with mine on RCP, which makes the $110 MRCG worth it for my target customers.

Plus, RC Driver -- possibly THE most widely read RC magazine -- is reviewing the MRCG. And if it's a positive review, then there are plenty of people out there who want the latest cool thing and will spend the money to get it. And then, (please forgive me for being overly blunt) I really don't need to care if one or two people think it's too expensive. ;)


So to sum it up, 1) There's not much room to push down the price, 2) the current price is a good place to be, and 3) I actually don't need to worry about sales, as long as I think for the longer term.


I agree. like i said I understand why it is so expensive, and I hope your product does very well. Its just at the 1/28 scale the market isnt as big as for a sinister or somthing. The only real good market at this scale is slot cars. So I think it will be harder to sell at the higher cost. What I think you should do is invest in a cnc machine. You can get a smaller good setup for around 600$-700$ and you could cut them yourself instead of paying larger manufacturing costs. You would be able to drop your retail price by as much as 30-40% and still get similiar profits. THAT would be the best thing to do. Again it is a great product but I think there is more then 1 or 2 people who think it is expensive. Good luck, and i hope to have a MRCG chassis on one of my cars one day.

c1v1c
12-19-2008, 01:32 PM
I agree. like i said I understand why it is so expensive, and I hope your product does very well. Its just at the 1/28 scale the market isnt as big as for a sinister or somthing. The only real good market at this scale is slot cars. So I think it will be harder to sell at the higher cost. What I think you should do is invest in a cnc machine. You can get a smaller good setup for around 600$-700$ and you could cut them yourself instead of paying larger manufacturing costs. You would be able to drop your retail price by as much as 30-40% and still get similiar profits. THAT would be the best thing to do. Again it is a great product but I think there is more then 1 or 2 people who think it is expensive. Good luck, and i hope to have a MRCG chassis on one of my cars one day.

Sinister is 1/28th scale:nod:

XMDrifter
12-19-2008, 02:00 PM
lol 3X, you do realize that the 1:28th scale has a huge market. if it didn't have a big market, then why would kyosho still release more mini-zs and rc driver review color0's MRCG? and iwaver is coming out with an iwaver awd, HFAY is releasing more stuff, PN just keeps going, etc.
you really think the 1:28 market is that small?

TripleXmodder(akaXXX)
12-19-2008, 06:15 PM
lol 3X, you do realize that the 1:28th scale has a huge market. if it didn't have a big market, then why would kyosho still release more mini-zs and rc driver review color0's MRCG? and iwaver is coming out with an iwaver awd, HFAY is releasing more stuff, PN just keeps going, etc.
you really think the 1:28 market is that small?

k if you think 1/28 has a large market you need to go back to school. They do have a market but it is the smallest of all the scales. Even slot car has a largermarket. Just go to your local tc hobby shops. The only major common known car is a minis. Iwavers and all those other knock offs don't even come close to a pro car. The SMALL 1/28 market mostly consists of body nodding. I have and run all scale electric and gas rc. Again your crazy to think that 1/28 has a large market.

&&& I'm not bashing color0. I am just giving some advice. From someone who does slot of manufacturing and I have a degree to back that up. I hope he succeeds and I love his product and want it to go well. 1/28 has a LARGE market is the craziest thing I ever heard. Be polite in your criticisms, it helps no one.

color0
12-19-2008, 06:22 PM
I now know that you've never even followed my project. ;) I did invest in a CNC mill. But a $600-700 CNC machine is useless for fast and/or precise work; those are for normal hobbyists wanting to learn CNC for cheap. The cheapest usable mills run about $1k, then adding precision upgrades brings you to $2k, and the CNC setup brings the total to $3k. I bought my setup with a student discount but it still cost me $2k. I already saved 30-40% of my costs because all the work I've done would've totaled well over $4k if I had gone with another CNC company.

TinyRC doesn't make a lot of money with their $50 Xmod CF chassis, I know because I talk to the owner a lot nowadays. Atomicmods makes a bit more with their Stiletto because it's aluminum, but still not a lot. But neither chassis has any 3D machined parts. The MRCG has four of those, plus four custom-machined standoffs (do you see any on your Xmods' chassis?) on top of the carbon fiber, and on top of that I threw in a complete disk damper setup, so asking for a 30-40% cut off from the current price is like asking for a $30 quality CF chassis for your Xmod. I doubt it will happen, because the CF plate you need for one costs $28 shipped. :p



Although 1/28 is not as huge as XMD would make it out to be, it's certainly on the radar, and I'm quite sure it's bigger than slot cars. I only found a few slot car shops/tracks on Google, but they're by far outnumbered by Mini-Z shops/tracks. Especially in Asia, slot cars are extinct. The "hobby streets" with lots of shops and tracks all cater towards Mini-Z, 1/18 and 1/10. Tamiyas of all scales are also very hot over there. :)

TripleXmodder(akaXXX)
12-20-2008, 03:07 AM
obviously your taking offense to my posts so I'll just leave it at that. Again good luck with the endever.

color0
12-20-2008, 04:20 AM
Thanks, I was. I don't want to go any further with this either because I know I sound like I'm flaming you and honestly don't mean to do that. :( I just can't understand where you're coming from because I have been DEALING with the pricing/manufacturing issue on a personal level for the last 9 months. And although I can't say I'm a good businessman, I can say that I know all the numbers and the necessary costs, and they are not as optimistic as you would like them to be.

---------------------------------------------------

I got a treat tonight, T.O.P. Racing driver EJ Evans test drove my car and liked a lot once we changed some settings. Within 5 laps he was actually driving as well as I was, and I'd been driving seriously clean lines and fast laps. Both of us were very impressed.

Later on my rear tires faded and so flinging the car into a corner with EJ's settings resulted in a nice little drift. I'd occasionally spin out on the sweeper, but otherwise I could get around basically every corner with a controlled powerslide. I wasn't much slower than before, and had lots of fun for the last hour of my track time. :D Take this observation how you will, I know Texan always wanted to drift an MRCG and I've almost done it with an earlier prototype. Seriously good fun, though hard and the setup is always finicky.

Anyways: Inside Line Racing changed their layout, it's now very fast and flowing, and it's going to be more about the car than the driver. Looks like my car has the right setup to win tomorrow because I had plenty of corner speed tonight. :)

torredo
12-20-2008, 09:20 AM
i dont see anything wrong with what your doin Color0?
i dont think your a bad businisman imho. that would mean youd be looking the other way.

color0
12-23-2008, 12:47 AM
I know what you mean by that, when you have to fix minor but crucial defects it can be quite frustrating. But the customer is [almost] always right, lol, and I need to make sure my product is good for their sake.

-----------------------------------

My new old GSR-liveried Lexus SC430. I've had this shell for a while, I put it away to test the 350Z. I think I like it better than the 350Z though since it has more aggressive handling and can take the inside line from almost anybody.

http://img386.imageshack.us/img386/9812/img0205cp0.jpg

It also puts me about 15% underweight compared to the Mini-Z's (usually around 190g), which makes this car corner just so wonderfully. :)

texan_idiot25
12-23-2008, 01:39 AM
Pure awesome. How have sales been man?

I swear, to the gods of the 1/28th, drifting cop car will some day come. If only the saga of the V8 truck would conclude for some short time.

XMDrifter
12-23-2008, 05:05 PM
so you dropped the Z body?
nice. you probably more in tune with your SC430.
so how does it drive now after you changed the shell?
and did you stiffen the front and lower the shell a bit(z shell wouldn't allow)?

color0
12-23-2008, 08:37 PM
Putting the 350Z on the back burner... the SC430 corners flatter (like, you can't see the body roll at all) and feels more direct. It's a shame it's discontinued already. I'm using normal MR02 springs now, medium-soft. I think I'm going to have to bump to medium or medium-hard but only testing will tell.

In the meantime, here's a little something I'm working on... instead of the tierod horn, a conventional steering linkage can be fitted after all.

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8440/img0207fo9.jpg

The original idea is EMU's (GSR team driver), but I fabricated my own adapter with the CNC mill. The ball joints are Atomic's, I used the shocks from their RM DPSII damper system, and glued the shock ends together to form a link.

Here's what it looks like in the car, very compact:

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/3614/img0208ms2.jpg

The steering seems to be a bit more precise with the linkage in, so this may actually be better than the tierod horn. However, I'm wary of trying to release this as a hop-up for the chassis until I can source good ball links. Shaving down the Atomic shocks and gluing them together is not my idea of user-friendliness. For anyone who doesn't mind a bit of DIY on their $110 chassis though, this mod is for you. :)

XMDrifter
12-23-2008, 08:51 PM
hmm. what about those adjustable turnbuckles? i was thinking of using a turnbuckle thing when i design my xmod chassis
i'm gonna follow your basic concept color0 if you don't mind.
i'm just going to try design something like your MRCG so it uses xmods spec parts.
(hint: motor shaft will be parallel to length of chassis like a gen 1 but way more compact)

color0
12-24-2008, 02:32 AM
I've never seen any company make 10mm adjustable turnbuckles.... 10mm links I could probably find from the micro-helicopter section, and that would be good enough for me since the adapter itself is adjustable and reversible.

You literally cannot follow my basic design on your Xmod chassis, are you going to punch a hole through 4 AAA's to run the driveshaft through? :p


Tex- missed your post, sorry. Sales are going OK so far, much slower than expected because of the economic plunge, but we're plodding along steadily. :)

RedSXmodder
12-24-2008, 10:15 AM
You literally cannot follow my basic design on your Xmod chassis, are you going to punch a hole through 4 AAA's to run the driveshaft through? :p

Saddle pack? :p

The car looks great color0. Right now I'm debating things in my head though. Is the flex plate/t-bar system the most practical setup for suspension geometry at this scale? Or is it just the most common? I'm looking at the 1/10th scale touring cars at my hobby shop and realizing the capabilities of the independent/tower shock suspensions. Even the AWD SAS system (as innacurate as people accuse it to be) seems like a very advanced system to be on this scale. I guess what I'm kinda getting at is does the flexplate/t-bar suspention (2wd) have a clear advantage over any other style suspension geometry with 2wd cars?

Umm, I'm just kinda thinking about that and pitching designs through my head. The thing I think is kinda cool about the AWD is that its setup very much like a touring car. I'd kinda like to do a concept based around a touring car, but the thing is it'd be fairly long. Thats the disadvantage. Even if it is AWD...

Later,
RedSXmodder

mini-z drift
12-24-2008, 11:19 AM
This is a great chassis first off.

Uhm, if you're ever going to try to making a AWD model, why not use a belt system?

XMDrifter
12-24-2008, 11:33 AM
if i made an xmod version with your design concept, i wouldn't even think of AWD. xmods' AWD is too inefficient, and ith a chassis like yours, who needs it anyways?

i could make an AWD one, but that'd defeat my purpose.

RedSXmodder
12-24-2008, 01:50 PM
You can't do an AWD in a flex plate/t-bar suspention. CVD shafts would be required, and you'd get alot of binding...

Plus a belt system is extremely impractical at this scale...

texan_idiot25
12-24-2008, 02:01 PM
For Color0, the original design was AWD, but costs and complexity drove it into the grave. Or should I say drifted it into the grave?

XMDrifter
12-24-2008, 02:37 PM
hah, color0 can drift rwd. what are you talking about.loljk

i don't think AWD would be neccesary for a balanced chasis like that.
complexity is the death of a formidable track car, so rwd would make more sense since it has fewer mving parts.

and flex-plate suspension is a very good system, so i don't think color0 could give it up.

Sweed
12-24-2008, 02:59 PM
i don't think AWD would be neccesary for a balanced chasis like that.
complexity is the death of a formidable track car, so rwd would make more sense since it has fewer mving parts.

AWD can also need an UNBALANCE chasis becuase of the torque steer from a shaft driven car. Not needed in a Belt driven car, but in a shaft driven car, you want slightly more weight on one side.

So, Mr. Color0 (I forgot what your real name was..), if I have a stock MR-02 and I buy a MRCG, how far off am I from having it running fairly good?

color0
12-24-2008, 03:54 PM
Red: The simplest and the most common. Flex plate/solid axle suspensions have one problem though in that pushing on one side affects the other. That's their main disadvantage against independent suspsensions. On the other hand they are vastly lighter and faster to setup since there are fewer parts.

The MRCG does a decent job of minimizing the disadvantage by lengthening the flex plates and moving their mounting points more aft. Thus when you press on one wheel, one flex plate does almost all the work. Effectively this is like a trailing-arm suspension with the trailing arm providing some spring.

The SAS system is extremely advanced, probably too much so because the front end can't keep up traction-wise, and you plow into the outside wall. I have a new AWD coming, once I get an SAS Pro II I'll try it with harder rear tires.

Flex plate + solid axles + shaft drive AWD can be done btw, if you are careful with the design. ABC Hobbies' old DTM-X4 was such a car. HPI's Micro RS4 has a single belt and a solid axle rear. Not that it works extremely well, but it works.

The original 1/28 design was a ridiculously high-end single-belt AWD, but poor weight transfer dynamics led me to design other things, which eventually became more cost-oriented and led me to the MRCG concept.



Regarding AWD vs. RWD. A car like the MRCG certainly doesn't need AWD; it's light enough that in a race, it can generate more steering and nearly as much traction. That said, the MRCG maxes out its traction potential in a race (like all RWD cars) while the AWD's still have some to spare -- if they use up too much of their potential they are guaranteed to traction roll. In the Modified class (high power), AWD beats MR02 because of the traction problem. A low-CG, lightweight AWD with decent balance would absolutely own Mod class racing. The MRCG would need a medium-to-high grip track to beat AWD cars in Mod class.

Sweed -- just get stainless steel kingpins, ball bearings and a servo and you're good to go. If you don't want to modify your rear pod to fit a gear diff, then get a cheapo 3racing ball diff (it's surprisingly good, actually).

XMDrifter
12-24-2008, 05:45 PM
isn't color0's name Brian?...
my name's Bryan...

TripleXmodder(akaXXX)
12-26-2008, 12:38 PM
Thanks color0 got my MRCG. I just put some MR02 parts I already had. I ordered some wheels, tires, servo etc.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj116/theredmanfamily/DSCN1911.jpg


Color0. I want one of those CF linkage plates you cut. How about making me one.

texan_idiot25
12-26-2008, 01:22 PM
isn't color0's name Brian?...
my name's Bryan...
You are correct, 'Color0's true Identity, for $500'

color0
12-26-2008, 03:24 PM
Yeah, I'll be cutting a bunch of those adapters today, I think this will be a popular mod for the car. ;)

TripleXmodder(akaXXX)
12-26-2008, 03:47 PM
Yeah, I'll be cutting a bunch of those adapters today, I think this will be a popular mod for the car. ;)


Color0 I PM'd you about wiring could you check that out please. Thanks alot.
http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj116/theredmanfamily/DSCN1915.jpg

color0
12-26-2008, 05:30 PM
PM replied, and I'm cutting those adapter plates as I type. I think I'll send them off to TinyRC and RCKenon because of the demand, and I can't distribute the parts as quickly as they can.

TripleXmodder(akaXXX)
12-28-2008, 02:59 PM
PM replied, and I'm cutting those adapter plates as I type. I think I'll send them off to TinyRC and RCKenon because of the demand, and I can't distribute the parts as quickly as they can.

You gotta send one to me. Make a deal.

color0
01-11-2009, 05:50 AM
Ack, forgot about the adapters. PM me your address and I'll give you a price. :)

-----------------------------

Went to Kenon Hobby for the first testing session in a while. Big Mini-Z shop and track in LA, with abnormally high grip for an RCP track.

Philip (track owner and the man behind PN Racing) hooked me up with a set of 20d slick fronts and 8d radial rears, so I had decent grip for practicing. I think I will need 15d slick fronts and 6d radial rears in a race situation, as the 98mm MRCG has less weight over the front wheels and could use some stickier front rubber.

Actually, Philip and Grant (Worlds' contender and general good guy) hooked me up with a lot of stuff. :o

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4599/img0217ah1.jpg

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/4786/img0218uy0.jpg

New ceramic diff: I was worried about smoothness (to be honest, previous PN diffs weren't spectacular) but this one IS spectacular. Really, really smooth and free. A bit on the heavy side but it feels as good as an open diff in terms of raw corner speed. 52t 64p spur gear.

New PN 70t, and 64p gears: Philip gave me a spare (with 12t pinion) to test out. Although the motor seems pretty loud, it winds up nicely, lots of torque.

F1 top spring: Grant pointed out to me that my rear suspension didn't have quite enough bump stiffness so he gave me a yellow F1 spring (thanks!). I had to adjust my center spring to compensate for the higher ride height but afterwards this thing did help corner exit steering a lot!

Philip also tuned my electronics board a bit on the ICS software, so now I get a bit more power (if less smooth... I'm not sure if I like this better) and faster servo response. My fastest lap of the day was a 7.7 (using 2007 Super GT 350Z body, btw), and Philip said that yesterday's fastest RWD Stock Sedan lap was a 7.9, so I think I may be close to the lap record, if not actually breaking it. Not bad for a first day. :cool:

After practice: new bearings (the previous ones were waaay overdue for replacement), installed new Delrin rims and half-worn Kyosho 20 radial rears. The Delrin rims are amazing, I regret not having installed these earlier. I also went to +1W rears (down from +2W) to tuck the wheels into the body a bit better. The 350Z body's actually the narrowest new Super GT body from Kyosho -- kinda weird.

But still, 7.7 with dead bearings and practice tires tells me I can probably hit 7.3 or 7.4 next time -- that'd definitely be a record, I can't wait. :D

XMDrifter
01-11-2009, 12:05 PM
looks like you'e been busy
what ceramic diff is this?

color0
01-11-2009, 03:48 PM
PN ceramic diff.

Btw, Philip confirmed that my 7.7 is the new Stock Sedan lap record! Woot. :cool:

2wdpancar
01-11-2009, 04:07 PM
When you come back to NorCal you should stop by ASH....... did you see the new layout? I think the MRCG would be a blast to drive on the current layout

mini-z drift
01-17-2009, 10:58 PM
Sorry for the bump
---
You might have some company:
http://www.redrc.net/2009/01/serpent-s240-124th-scale-chassis/
BUT I've seen these up close and they are very flimsy. Just a little intel.

color0
01-17-2009, 11:27 PM
Nah, I highly doubt that the S240 will make much headway over here. No AAA NiMH, no 130-size motor, only foam tires and Lexan body, so it's going into a totally different class, similar to the Robitronic Scalpel in that it's drawing people from larger scales down. It's completely different from the MRCG, which provides a better product for the people already in these smaller classes. Instead of being a competitor, I imagine the S240 will actually boost 1/28 pan car sales once the economy picks itself back up.

color0
03-06-2009, 07:41 PM
Recent updates:

Took apart my servo to show you guys how to wire the S3113 to the Mini-Z ASF board:

http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/7831/img0276g.jpg




Also... I saw the McLaren white bodies and swore to myself that I'd buy one, and thankfully Binh at ILR had one in stock for me (thanks again btw!). Here she is with a nearly-perfect Sharpie job. :D

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8793/img0279c.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/615/img0280qdo.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6286/img0281j.jpg

http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/5425/img0282b.jpg

I even installed the mirrors this time around because Kyosho finally made them flexible! I cut out the rear end to take some weight away and let the air flow out from under the body (works somewhat like a crude diffuser, just look at 1/12 Pan and 1/10 TC). The McLaren actually feels like a pan body rather than a touring body though, with the low height and wide offsets (you're looking at +3N/+3.5W in the pictures!). At Kenon they were just as fast as the Pan Cars so I think this will be a good body to run, even if it is on the heavy side. Can't wait till spring break comes around. :cool:

RedSXmodder
03-07-2009, 10:58 AM
Everybody stand clear of color0 and his arsenal of whitebody GSR flagships. ;)

texan_idiot25
03-07-2009, 11:50 AM
Everybody stand clear of color0 and his arsenal of whitebody GSR flagships. ;)
Arsenal of "I can't paint, but I can sharpie!" flagships! :p

Donziikid
03-07-2009, 04:00 PM
That white McLaren is just plain perfect. ;)

Cheers,
Kyle.

XMDrifter
03-07-2009, 06:22 PM
perfect penwork there. i envy your skills

bigez
03-08-2009, 12:19 AM
that is one of the coolest looking z bodys i have seen you did a great job on it

theoriganalRiD3R1967
03-08-2009, 03:16 AM
plus no paint equals lighter! huh? huh? am i right, huh?

very cool, having your own chassis design put into production, leaves mean green with sea sickness!, no what no, i meant jealousy!

if you don't mind me asking, how much have you put in to this and how much have you got out?

color0
03-08-2009, 08:16 AM
Thanks for all the comments guys! No paint really is lighter, lol... I don't have to care too much about that but it's nice to know. The real benefit is that any race damage on the front splitter can be repaired with a single swipe of the pen. :lol:

As far as input/output... let's say it's not great, but that I'm making an investment for the future. If you only count the production run of cars then I'm turning a slight profit, but if you count all the tools and supplies I bought to prototype, test, measure, and promote the cars, then I'm WAAY in the negatives. I have to buy new bodies to see if they give me any helpful performance advantage, new electronics, even a custom pit board so that local racers know that the MRCG is there.

Hopefully I'll be able to turn an actual profit sometime down the line, but for now I'm paying for a great learning experience, my own satisfaction with the hobby, and satisfaction from my customers. Good enough for me, for now. :)

theoriganalRiD3R1967
03-08-2009, 07:40 PM
i don't kow how else to say and i may sound blunt but here it goes...good answer!