Corvette ZR1: Your exotics are no longer safe.

[texan_idiot25]

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2007/10/16110202007114923203_450.jpg-ALMS

Take the Corvette. Take its base 6.2L V8, and super charge the hell out of it with air to liquid intercoolers and a centrifugal supercharger.

650-700 hp. 0-60 in the 3.5-3.7 (or lower?) range. 200+ MPH. Carbon Ceramic brakes. More weight loss.

Drivetrain mules like this one, have been around. Last weekend a yellow one (up until now, its been the Blue Devil, and a Silver one) hit up Laguna Seca for some track time. The video that ALMS provided showed it ran roughly 1:39 around laguna. Just watch the massive speed this baby carries down the cork-screw.

_glVFYHh_xU


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/texan_idiot25/zr1_923281.jpg-ALMS

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/texan_idiot25/210948590-M.jpg-DVL (http://dvl-vision.smugmug.com/gallery/3686573#210962046)
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e321/texan_idiot25/210962046-M.jpg-DVL (http://dvl-vision.smugmug.com/gallery/3686573#210962046)


Now, final specs have yet to be released, and since this is a performance mule, I doubt we will see the final look of the car for a while too. But the car has been in testing at the Nurb for years now, so unlike the Viper in some respects, this aught to hit the streets as one perfected beast. It is set to come out late next year as an '09 and slotted above the current Z06, which will still in production at the time.

[Stampedekid]

holy ****! yeah, them exotics better be afraid, they should be very afraid! lol, its sick

[Sweed]

Ah, yes.. But it's still a Chevy....

Supercharger? Yum...

But, seriously, it's still a chevy..

I think the Zero-to-60mph is just a bad number. Zero-to-100mph is much better. The first 60mph all depends on how good you are at shifting (unless it's electronic, but that's boring), but the extra 40mph even it out..

My Koenigsegg still kicks arse.

Oh, and it's still a Chevy. :bigwink:

[Stampedekid]

well personally i like the enzo, but i like vettes so thats why it caught my eye

[texan_idiot25]

Sweed, still being a Chevy is a good thing, since pretty much every single Swedish automaker has sold out to a company of another origin. :lol:

Enzo-bleh, not Ferrari's best looking car, by far... But this car aught to be Enzo *** Whooping Fast

[Sweed]

Sweed, still being a Chevy is a good thing, since pretty much every single Swedish automaker has sold out to a company of another origin. :lol:

Not Koenigsegg. And that's becuase the Swedish Gov. takes all their money, so it's not like they're not rich (they weren't to begin with) anymore.

Enzo-bleh, not Ferrari's best looking car, by far... But this car aught to be Enzo *** Whooping Fast

They made too many of the Enzo for it to be a cool/rare car... And it looks fugly. I like the re-designed version some guy did though..

I'll take a Bio-Diseil, high milage, Saab Aero-X. You can't beat something made by Rocket Scientists and people that build Jets...

And we have TANK DRIFTING!!! TANK DRIFTING!!! TANK DRIFTING!!!

EDIT: No, seriously, I like the Corvettes. Of any American Car, I would take a Corvette.. They're kinda cool, kinda mean, but just kinda expensive.

[texan_idiot25]

Sweed... Saab is designed, and built at/with GM and GM parts. Saab isnt really Swedish any more, :lol: And Koenigsegg is one company. Time to move on ;)

But tank drifting, ftw.

Now, enough about the silly sweeds.

[live4luck14]

dude that things like a veryon or sumtin like that except probably much much cheaper

[noturday]

sweeeet, umm ownage? i think so

[civic_guy]

THREAD TITLE COPIER!! :p :lol: :lol:

Anyways that's gonna be a mean machine. I hope they really differentiate this trim from the base and Z06 trim. Are there any concepts of the body yet? or even drawings to hint what direction they're going with this thing as far as looks go?

[texan_idiot25]

Civic_guy- :lol: I didnt copy, I was inspired.. :p Besides speculation drawings, nothing to point at the final product, look-wise. GM is keeping tight lips about it. Im betting that, for once, they wont leak the looks of the car until its ready to be unveiled, which is a nice change for once.

live4luck14-Guestimates put it at below 150k. Like the Z06, it will be a world beater for much less cash. The Z06 already competes and beats many super cars. This thing will be nuts.

[REDisFASTER]

dude that things like a veryon or sumtin like that except probably much much cheaper

You have absolutely no idea what a Veyron looks like, don't you?

How does the C6 even look close to a Veyron?

Sweed, tank drifting is for nubs... Real men drift F-18s:

http://my.opera.com/eelcobakker/blog/show.dml/1037450

[suicide_star]

**** nice car...

whats wrong with it being a chevy sweed? i wouldnt own anything but a GM product...well, im lying, i like toyota too...but still lol

[jimmythekid1]

My father in law might have some info on this I will ask him next time I see him if he knows any specs or has any pictures. He is a photographer for vette vues magazine. Don't get to excited he may not know any more about it then we do. But he had all the details on hte new Z06 before all the mags did so he might know something if he will let me, I will post the info for you guys.

this is a old article him and some friends did for GM hig performance magazine, his name is Dave Estes.
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/features/0602htp_2006_z06_chevrolet_corvette_feature/index.html

[Spoon_Tuner]

:eyecraz: WOW :eyecraz:

[REDisFASTER]

:eyecraz: WOW :eyecraz:

Next time, please make more of an effort when posting your reply. That reply is considered spam, as it really doesn't contribute to any discussion.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[civic_guy]

Civic_guy- :lol: I didnt copy, I was inspired.. :p


Yeah i know, I was just messin around :D I can't wait to see how this car looks. I've never been a fan of corvette's looks until the most recent model. I love the headlights instead of the flip-ups

[Sweed]

whats wrong with it being a chevy sweed?

I never said there's anything wrong with it.. It's just that it's a Chevy.
It's a joke.

[snowboi1289]

holy ****! yeah, them exotics better be afraid, they should be very afraid! lol, its sick

yea !!

ricers be affraid also,if u see 1 of these in ur city, take alot of pics, and videos..

[redrkt]

we will see what it will do............when the NISMO edition Skyline GT-R comes out next year.
Considering that the new skyline already owns the vette and several other "Supercars" on the ring.

But it is nice looking.................for a vette.

[jabari]

That looks pretty clean. I have always wanted a Corvette.

[SUPERSHELBY]

we will see what it will do............when the NISMO edition Skyline GT-R comes out next year.
Considering that the new skyline already owns the vette and several other "Supercars" on the ring.

But it is nice looking.................for a vette.

if the vette doesnt do it this **** sure will...(and no im not sayin that cuz "shelby" is in the name:p )

http://www.shelbysupercars.com/gallery/img_74.jpg

[THE EDJ]

I was under the impression this version of the corvette was going to be called the SS, not ZR1, but either way, who cares. It's gonna be bloody friggin fast. I'd smoke it's tires.

[sweetvette]

hopefully the interior will be nicer than pass corvettes, i heard their not the snazziest things

[tommygreen23]

Skylines don't "own" anything, ever. Of corse any car with 2 turbos will be fast. ppfh... I hate skyline lovers.

It will defiantly look different than the current Z06, look at the spoiler, and the vents in the fender. Although they are taped up you can kinda make out their shape.

Its like the 70's again, Ill make one faster than yooooou! But bumped up a couple hundred notches :p

[texan_idiot25]

I was under the impression this version of the corvette was going to be called the SS, not ZR1, but either way, who cares. It's gonna be bloody friggin fast. I'd smoke it's tires.
Eh, It has been through many name changes, but none were officially official. Chevy released that is is finally the ZR1, a call back the the C4 ZR1 which was the very top-end Vette for its time. A DOHC Lotus developed 5.7L LT5 made some 400 hp. And this was coming after the horrible late 70s-80s malaise era.

Again, the changes to the car are just so far functional changes. Nothing cosmetic has been changed, yet. GM has kept tight lips about it (thankfully, makes for a better suprise IMO when it gets unvieled).

[REDisFASTER]

More pics at DC (Digital Corvettes). No need to register!

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=965284

[Surgeon]

Skylines don't "own" anything, ever. Of corse any car with 2 turbos will be fast. ppfh... I hate skyline lovers.



Two turbos on a geo prism still wouldn't be fast. If you have a problem with forced induction then you probably don't like this edition of the vette that is supercharged do you?

Does look like it has about the same specs as the baseline gtr. I wonder how they will compare on price.

[REDisFASTER]

Boys boy boys... Even though the thread title is kind of assuming, please don't turn this into another one of those tuner vs. domestics threads. If you do, this thread will eventually be shut down...

[texan_idiot25]

Does look like it has about the same specs as the baseline gtr. I wonder how they will compare on price.

The base GTR competes with the Z06 as far as performance, this car is far and beyond the GTR. The 0-60 numbers I gave have been conservative estimates about the ZR1.. The Z06 already does 3.7, but with a near 200 extra hp, who knows how the ZR1 will launch. But time will tell when Chevy gets some real numbers to us. With it set to roll out late next year, its gonna be awhile.

But, I guaranty, once that thing gets traction, theres no stopping it. :lol:

[supraboi97]

That is one of the best corvettes i've seen and was insane on laguna seca video

[Surgeon]

The base GTR competes with the Z06 as far as performance, this car is far and beyond the base model GTR. The 0-60 numbers I gave have been conservative estimates about the ZR1.. The Z06 already does 3.7, but with a near 200 extra hp, who knows how the ZR1 will launch. But time will tell when Chevy gets some real numbers to us. With it set to roll out late next year, its gonna be awhile.

But, I guaranty, once that thing gets traction, theres no stopping it. :lol:


When you get to that point, you can't compare it to the basemodel GTR, but rather the flagship GTR, which there aren't specs on yet.

It's a decent looking vette, I hope the black crap is just something on there for track testing. Those wheels on it are some of the ugliest I have ever seen. Hopefully they upgrade the brakes so there is something stopping it.....

[texan_idiot25]

Big carbon ceramic brakes. Plenty of stopping.

Exactly, the base model GTR is what YOU compared to the ZR1:
Does look like it has about the same specs as the baseline gtr. I wonder how they will compare on price.
And I state, this car is far beyond the base GTR, which competes with the Z06.

[taiwanesekid05]

this must mean my aunt's toyota wish is no longer safe...

[Surgeon]

Big carbon ceramic brakes. Plenty of stopping.

Exactly, the base model GTR is what YOU compared to the ZR1:

And I state, this car is far beyond the base GTR, which competes with the Z06.


The stats you gave were about that of the GTR, which I thought were at least somewhat official(rather than random guessing). The 0-60 you gave was that of the baseline GTR. Either way neither vehicles will have the acceleration of the Atom.

The disc brake was a joke referring to your "nothing can stop it".

The baseline GTR competes with the Porsche and other supercars, the Z06 doesn't quite fit the performance bill to be in the same category.

Either way, the corvette needs a little something something(aesthetically). I am not to keen on the fact that it looks about the exact same as everything else. Why spend so much money if it still looks cheap?

[tommygreen23]

Imports are notorious for being cheap.

I love the fact that everyone that fights for skylines makes new accounts to do so. Ill just be the bugger person and say that I disagree with you completely and walk away. Maybe you'll learn someday.

[Surgeon]

Imports are notorious for being cheap.


Imports are cheap? Have you sat inside a Mustang?Camaro? The cheap plastic that lines them should say tonka.

Reliability wise Ford managed to make cars that spontaneously combusted. They randomly caught fire because the manufacturer used cheaper materials to make fuses.

Really tho imports are cheap, like the Dodge's made in Mexico and the Chevy's made in Canada. The over abundant plastic siding, and pitifully designed wiring harnesses.

Or perhaps they are cheap because you aren't paying the ridiculous union labor salaries rather than proper r&d and materials for your automobile? That could be it.

[redrkt]

Imports are notorious for being cheap.

I love the fact that everyone that fights for skylines makes new accounts to do so. Ill just be the bugger person and say that I disagree with you completely and walk away. Maybe you'll learn someday.

Uhhh Sorry but if you look you will see that I have been here longer than you!!!

Now for the bad news the "flagship skyline ( NISMO Edition)" will have almost the identical horsepower that the corvette is supposed to have.

Also all 3 models of the Skyline that will be available this year come standard at 480 hp.

OK all here are the specs for the new Skyline.
http://www.gtrnissan.com/specs.en.us.html

[texan_idiot25]

Surgeon-Prolly no doubt the GTR can muster a better 0-60, with AWD. But like I said, once the ZR1 gets traction, it aught to be one rocket. Z06 and the base GTR compete well. This ZR1, and what ever Nissan makes of an upper level GTR aught to go toe-to-toe..

Toyota is cheap, transmission issues and tail gates that fall off, as reported by a toyota tundra forum. The Sienna has an issue with spot welds failin in the doors, causing them not to hold open. FJs frame flexes so much, that their becoming more and more known to bend up front fenders, and body mounts that are inconsistent in sizes by as much as an inch, again reported by a fan forum. Yet Toyota has yet to recall for any of the above issues.

[jimmythekid1]

Imports are cheap? Have you sat inside a Mustang?Camaro? The cheap plastic that lines them should say tonka.

Reliability wise Ford managed to make cars that spontaneously combusted. They randomly caught fire because the manufacturer used cheaper materials to make fuses.

Really tho imports are cheap, like the Dodge's made in Mexico and the Chevy's made in Canada. The over abundant plastic siding, and pitifully designed wiring harnesses.

Or perhaps they are cheap because you aren't paying the ridiculous union labor salaries rather than proper r&d and materials for your automobile? That could be it.

dude all cars are lined with cheap plastic, and have been having wiring harness problem since 1990. Have you ever been inside a late 90's 911? can you say fisher price.

[redrkt]

Surgeon-Prolly no doubt the GTR can muster a better 0-60, with AWD. But like I said, once the ZR1 gets traction, it aught to be one rocket. Z06 and the base GTR compete well. This ZR1, and what ever Nissan makes of an upper level GTR aught to go toe-to-toe..

Toyota is cheap, transmission issues and tail gates that fall off, as reported by a toyota tundra forum. The Sienna has an issue with spot welds failin in the doors, causing them not to hold open. FJs frame flexes so much, that their becoming more and more known to bend up front fenders, and body mounts that are inconsistent in sizes by as much as an inch, again reported by a fan forum. Yet Toyota has yet to recall for any of the above issues.

Well,The official time for the new GT-R is 7:38" on the 'Ring', somewhere between 20 and 25 seconds faster than the Z06.

The only cars faster are the CCX, Carrera GT, and the Pagani Zonda F.

Links with the current info directly from Nissan:
1 http://www2.nissan.co.jp/MS/TOKYO2007/E/index.html

2 http://www2.nissan.co.jp/GT-R/R35/0710/index.html

[Surgeon]

Surgeon-Prolly no doubt the GTR can muster a better 0-60, with AWD. But like I said, once the ZR1 gets traction, it aught to be one rocket. Z06 and the base GTR compete well. This ZR1, and what ever Nissan makes of an upper level GTR aught to go toe-to-toe..

Toyota is cheap, transmission issues and tail gates that fall off, as reported by a toyota tundra forum. The Sienna has an issue with spot welds failin in the doors, causing them not to hold open. FJs frame flexes so much, that their becoming more and more known to bend up front fenders, and body mounts that are inconsistent in sizes by as much as an inch, again reported by a fan forum. Yet Toyota has yet to recall for any of the above issues.

The Z06 doesn't quite compete with the base GTR, like redrkt stated, it competes with the Carrera and Zonda. The Z06 is a little lacking.

Although AWD it uses the advanced ATTESA E-TS pro system. So once it gets going it switches to RWD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATTESA_E-TS

For some one who is so megalomaniacle about their automotive knowledge, you should know that the tacoma, tundra, sienna, pontiac vibe etc. are all manufactured here in america, and thus are domestic(in my opinion). If they have manufacturing faults, that is blame that can be placed on the American employees. Weld spots are the fault of employees as well as inconsistent drill sizes. When you go to american domestic standard these things happen. Here is one external link:

http://www.toyoland.com/toyota/plants.html

You can do more research on your own time so that your actual knowledge base can accomodate your desired knowledge base.

@Jimmy- there is a difference between having the plastic and covering it with leather, cloth, woodgrain and other materials that make it more aesthetically appealing.

[jimmythekid1]

The Z06 doesn't quite compete with the base GTR, like redrkt stated, it competes with the Carrera and Zonda. The Z06 is a little lacking.

Although AWD it uses the advanced ATTESA E-TS pro system. So once it gets going it switches to RWD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATTESA_E-TS

For some one who is so megalomaniacle about their automotive knowledge, you should know that the tacoma, tundra, sienna, pontiac vibe etc. are all manufactured here in america, and thus are domestic(in my opinion). If they have manufacturing faults, that is blame that can be placed on the American employees. Weld spots are the fault of employees as well as inconsistent drill sizes. When you go to american domestic standard these things happen. Here is one external link:

http://www.toyoland.com/toyota/plants.html

You can do more research on your own time so that your actual knowledge base can accomodate your desired knowledge base.

@Jimmy- there is a difference between having the plastic and covering it with leather, cloth, woodgrain and other materials that make it more aesthetically appealing.

your being very general not all imports do that. Be it japanese, American or European they all are crap in one way or another.

[civic_guy]

Texan: the GT-R isn't made to compete with the ZR-1 period. Only the Z06 as they are going for the "bang for the buck" market strategy not the "my car has more power" strategy. If NISMO does a tune of the GT-R then that MAY compete with the ZR-1 but the GT-R will always be a track car or circut car not so much a drag car. Corvettes will always be marveled at their straightline speed qualities, as is true for most domestic vehicles.

[jimmythekid1]

Texan: the GT-R isn't made to compete with the ZR-1 period. Only the Z06 as they are going for the "bang for the buck" market strategy not the "my car has more power" strategy. If NISMO does a tune of the GT-R then that MAY compete with the ZR-1 but the GT-R will always be a track car or circut car not so much a drag car. Corvettes will always be marveled at their straightline speed qualities, as is true for most domestic vehicles.

Corvette are not designed for the drag if that was the case why have a rear transmission, IRS, adjustable shocks plus they compete in lots of road course like the Rolex 24 hour race. The old ZR-1 had electronically controlled suspension and could easily take a 90 Degree turn at 45mph. Not to mention a 50/50 wieght ratio, which you don't need for the drag strip.

[Surgeon]

dude all cars are lined with cheap plastic, and have been having wiring harness problem since 1990. Have you ever been inside a late 90's 911? can you say fisher price.

You say all cars are made with cheap plastic.....


your being very general not all imports do that. Be it japanese, American or European they all are crap in one way or another.

Then you say I am being very general? The interior of a 12k POS Xa looks better than the interior on a Mustang GT. Deal with it.

Corvette are not designed for the drag if that was the case why have a rear transmission, IRS, adjustable shocks plus they compete in lots of road course like the Rolex 24 hour race. The old ZR-1 had electronically controlled suspension and could easily take a 90 Degree turn at 45mph. Not to mention a 50/50 wieght ratio, which you don't need for the drag strip.

Yes it is a cute attempt at a track car.;) It reminds me of when a kid puts a suit and tie on and carries his dad's briefcase around. He looks like a little business man, but he doesn't mean business at all.:lol: Focusing on specific race types to tune your car is great, slashies and crossovers are not; there is no defining line between which is better it is personal preference. If you like going fast for a 1/4 of a mile, go for an unreliable,gas-guzzling domestic. If you want a car rounded for speed control and handling buy an import that is sport tuned. Bottom line is there are no rights and wrongs. On a five mile dirt course a base model Imprezza would most likely own the GTR nismo and the Zr1 vette. Deal with it.

[jimmythekid1]

You say all cars are made with cheap plastic.....




Then you say I am being very general? The interior of a 12k POS Xa looks better than the interior on a Mustang GT. Deal with it.



Yes it is a cute attempt at a track car.;) It reminds me of when a kid puts a suit and tie on and carries his dad's briefcase around. He looks like a little business man, but he doesn't mean business at all.:lol: Focusing on specific race types to tune your car is great, slashies and crossovers are not; there is no defining line between which is better it is personal preference. If you like going fast for a 1/4 of a mile, go for an unreliable,gas-guzzling domestic. If you want a car rounded for speed control and handling buy an import that is sport tuned. Bottom line is there are no rights and wrongs. On a five mile dirt course a base model Imprezza would most likely own the GTR nismo and the Zr1 vette. Deal with it.

Dude a vette has always been a track car, and always will. The transmission has been in the rear since 1997. The vette also gets 26MPG on the highway, in 2007 it was the only sports car in its class to not have to pay a gas guzzler tax. Domestics are just as reliable as imports ever heard of the buick 3800? Isnt this thread about the vette whos talking about mustangs, and subies, stay on topic.

PS you don't have a soft spot for supras do you?

[Surgeon]

Dude a vette has always been a track car, and always will. The transmission has been in the rear since 1997. The vette also gets 26MPG on the highway, in 2007 it was the only sports car in its class to not have to pay a gas guzzler tax. Domestics are just as reliable as imports ever heard of the buick 3800? Isnt this thread about the vette whos talking about mustangs, and subies, stay on topic.

PS you don't have a soft spot for supras do you?


Since 1997 isn't always its the last decade they have been working towards making it a track car. It does well in national races, but internationally it is nothing special.

Observe the road. The cars before 95 that are still utilized as dailey drivers are almost all imports. Every once in awhile you will see the old truck or cavalier billowing smoke from the back while making its way to work.

The Supra is alright. I prefer the single turbo set up as it is a more efficient use of power IMO. I am more of a 350z/G35 guy myself.:bigwink:

[jimmythekid1]

My drive way includes
1 1995 GMC 3/4 van runs great but I do need to rebuild the rear end 130000miles

1 2005 Mazda tribute(ford tribute) 30,000miles ok car lots of road noise and wears tires even though alignment is at factory specs.

1 1979 Chevy Impala runs great 86,000 and every thing is original except ignition parts.

My parent have
1 1995 Buick Park Avenue that's in great shape needs shocks but runs like a top, 98,000 miles.

1 1991 ford 1/2 ton 300,000 mile second engine ol' piece of **** but hey it works

I live in a gm town so most of the cars are domestic and I live in a harsh climate. So I've observed the road and have seen lots of old domestics still pushing.

Also in 97 Chevy move the trans axle to the rear, not the year they started build it as a track car

So i see you have preference for imports but I'm telling you they are all the same don't mater wear they came from, they all break. I'm just one of the many poor SOB that have to fix them.

[civic_guy]

Corvette are not designed for the drag if that was the case why have a rear transmission, IRS, adjustable shocks plus they compete in lots of road course like the Rolex 24 hour race. The old ZR-1 had electronically controlled suspension and could easily take a 90 Degree turn at 45mph. Not to mention a 50/50 wieght ratio, which you don't need for the drag strip.

No you misunderstood what I'm saying. I never said anything about how they were designed. I'm talking about its image. Chevy doesn't market the corvette as a super handling track car. I've worked on some Chevy ads for one of my marketing classes. They like the Corvette to be associated as fast, they put great emphasis on 0-60 times for it and Top Speed times. Not track times. Domestic cars in general are positioned as fast cars with low 0-60 times. They had a whole ad campaign around the new Mustang GT bragging about its 0-60 time.

I'm not saying the ZR1 can't handle or turn 90 degrees, I'm saying that Chevy doesn't want to position the ZR1 or any other Corvette trim as a car with superior handling.

The GT-R's appeal in relation to the Corvette is price. Bang for your buck appeal. You think the ZR1 target market cares about handling? Sure, but not as much as price, 0-60,0-100 times or top speed. Which is why they market and position the Corvette as a speed machine carrying a reasonable price tag. Not a handling machine.


Again this isn't to say the Corvette doesn't have good handling, it does. It has awesome handling, but marketing wise, the ZR1 will never be in competition with the GT-R because both cars have two entirely different product images.

I highly doubt you will see chevy boasting how their ZR1 measures up to the GT-R, they'll go for bigger more Exotic fish. Other Exotics who carry the same product image.


Which bring me to another point, why do you think the GT-R was developed to be equal in performance to the 911 Turbo? When you think Porsche, the majority of people (car savvy or not) think handling. They think small and nimble and Porsche has built their cars using that product image. Nissan is trying to build up the image of the GT-R to be a well handling machine.

[jimmythekid1]

No you misunderstood what I'm saying. I never said anything about how they were designed. I'm talking about its image. Chevy doesn't market the corvette as a super handling track car. I've worked on some Chevy ads for one of my marketing classes. They like the Corvette to be associated as fast, they put great emphasis on 0-60 times for it and Top Speed times. Not track times. Domestic cars in general are positioned as fast cars with low 0-60 times. They had a whole ad campaign around the new Mustang GT bragging about its 0-60 time.

I'm not saying the ZR1 can't handle or turn 90 degrees, I'm saying that Chevy doesn't want to position the ZR1 or any other Corvette trim as a car with superior handling.

The GT-R's appeal in relation to the Corvette is price. Bang for your buck appeal. You think the ZR1 target market cares about handling? Sure, but not as much as price, 0-60,0-100 times or top speed. Which is why they market and position the Corvette as a speed machine carrying a reasonable price tag. Not a handling machine.


Again this isn't to say the Corvette doesn't have good handling, it does. It has awesome handling, but marketing wise, the ZR1 will never be in competition with the GT-R because both cars have two entirely different product images.

I highly doubt you will see chevy boasting how their ZR1 measures up to the GT-R, they'll go for bigger more Exotic fish. Other Exotics who carry the same product image.


Which bring me to another point, why do you think the GT-R was developed to be equal in performance to the 911 Turbo? When you think Porsche, the majority of people (car savvy or not) think handling. They think small and nimble and Porsche has built their cars using that product image. Nissan is trying to build up the image of the GT-R to be a well handling machine.


I see your point.

[tommygreen23]

Imports are cheap? Have you sat inside a Mustang?Camaro? The cheap plastic that lines them should say tonka.

Reliability wise Ford managed to make cars that spontaneously combusted. They randomly caught fire because the manufacturer used cheaper materials to make fuses.

Really tho imports are cheap, like the Dodge's made in Mexico and the Chevy's made in Canada. The over abundant plastic siding, and pitifully designed wiring harnesses.

Or perhaps they are cheap because you aren't paying the ridiculous union labor salaries rather than proper r&d and materials for your automobile? That could be it.

You must have not heard of the Honda Pilots. They leak oil onto the exhaust manifold and burst into flames as well. I don't much care for ford myself either. They have gotten really cheap lately as well as "boxy" with their styling.

Plastic siding? The only domestic car that I can think of is the Avalanche, and that plastic was designed to protect during offloading and there is metal underneath it. I guess you haven't seen a Honda Element...
I assure you there is no metal under those obnoxious fenders.

Also the domestics made in the states are just assembled here, the parts still come from Japan, where 13 year old kids are forced to make parts for pennies an hour. Much better than unions...

[texan_idiot25]

For some one who is so megalomaniacle about their automotive knowledge, you should know that the tacoma, tundra, sienna, pontiac vibe etc. are all manufactured here in america, and thus are domestic(in my opinion). If they have manufacturing faults, that is blame that can be placed on the American employees. Weld spots are the fault of employees as well as inconsistent drill sizes. When you go to american domestic standard these things happen. Here is one external link:

http://www.toyoland.com/toyota/plants.html

You can do more research on your own time so that your actual knowledge base can accomodate your desired knowledge base.

Regardless of where they are manufactured, if your implying that design flaws are the American plant's and worker's faults, then I find that.. very interesting. With the exception of the Sienna doors, which is quality control, failing transmission, tail gates that give out under load, and have in cases fallen off, and frames so soft it causes body damage is design flaws, not quality control. But wait, every time GM has a problem with a transmission it is instantly bad, bad GM design. But with Toyota, now its the American workers faults? Interesting view point.

Tudra's issues, straight from the owners:

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/103690-2007-6-speed-transmission-failures/
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/tundra/114436-tundra-tailgate-failures-i-am-club/

The sienna:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=678203

FJ's:
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/problems-dealer-service/33440-engine-bay-body-rips.html

[REDisFASTER]

One thing older Toyotas are good for, a properly maintained engine will last centuries. I've read and heard stories from a few guys who own/owned some form of 90s and earlier Toyota vehicles with 380+K and a few even reached around the 460K mark with only regular maintenance. This is talking about the engine. Everything else always has their positive and negative points. Of course they did have some problems, but those aren't concerning the engine. The car/truck still runs fine, just minor annoyances.

These are in kilometers, btw.

Also, I like the way how you guys went from page 2's arguing to a toned down, more mature discussion in page 3. You should keep it this way. Next time someone comes on saying something related to imports vs domestic in a sense that it will introduce another argument, just ignore it.

[Surgeon]

-Ill just be the bugger person and say that I disagree with you completely and walk away. Maybe you'll learn someday.

Ehrm riiiiight... Iguess your not the bugger person anymore?

You must have not heard of the Honda Pilots. They leak oil onto the exhaust manifold and burst into flames as well. I don't much care for ford myself either. They have gotten really cheap lately as well as "boxy" with their styling. The ford bursts into flames at any given point, could be driving, in the middle of the night in your garage, at any time. Hence the term I used "spontaneous".

Plastic siding? The only domestic car that I can think of is the Avalanche, and that plastic was designed to protect during offloading and there is metal underneath it. I guess you haven't seen a Honda Element...
I assure you there is no metal under those obnoxious fenders. There is the avalanche, the PT cruiser's bumper, ford escape, saturn is all plastic, nitro,etc. I doubt many of these are taken offroad.

Also the domestics made in the states are just assembled here, the parts still come from Japan, where 13 year old kids are forced to make parts for pennies an hour. Much better than unions...Are you that globally ignorant? Japan is one of the most americanized countries in the world(has been since it's rebuild in ww2) You must be referring to China,or Korea when you imply child labor. Japanese academic standards are much higher than ours as well as they have a pure capitalistic economy. As far as pennies an hour that is all relevant, the american dollar is devaluing at a rate in which our wages are fractions of other countries. Go to a currency converter and play around with it for a while, you will be surprised.

Regardless of where they are manufactured, if your implying that design flaws are the American plant's and worker's faults, then I find that.. very interesting. With the exception of the Sienna doors, which is quality control, failing transmission, tail gates that give out under load, and have in cases fallen off, and frames so soft it causes body damage is design flaws, not quality control. But wait, every time GM has a problem with a transmission it is instantly bad, bad GM design. But with Toyota, now its the American workers faults? Interesting view point.Well, the thing is it is both being designed and manufactured here in the states(gm). Let's use an xmod for example, how many posts do you see of people who can't get awd to work? How about any other part you might feel is trivial? Does that make it the brands fault because it was assembled wrong? It is funny that you speak of it in such harsh terms as being purely japans fault, then won't acknowledge any liability on those who physically build it. I guess the pontiac vibe is an import? What about the solstice with its subaru suspension? There are countless foreign parts in american cars, its called globalization. The world is getting smaller and specialization in specific fields is becoming the most efficient way to do business.

Speaking of frames and suspension, word is that the new chevy trucks are having horrendous suspension problems from everyday road use. My friend is ticked at the fact he only gets paid warranty to fix all of them.



One thing older Toyotas are good for, a properly maintained engine will last centuries.I've seen this many times over myself. It is rare to see well running domestics with over 100k on the same motor.

Also, I like the way how you guys went from page 2's arguing to a toned down, more mature discussion in page 3. You should keep it this way. Next time someone comes on saying something related to imports vs domestic in a sense that it will introduce another argument, just ignore it.Well, this is the first time texan posted on this page ;)

[texan_idiot25]

I see your point, and if it was like the fit and finish problems of just about everything from in the 90s, then yes that is up to those who assemble then. Toyota designed the pick up. Toyota is responsible for when it has issues such as this, just from the back wheels of a golf cart:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/DallSheep4me/untitled2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v228/DallSheep4me/untitled3.jpg

Even Toyota owners themselves will say poor design, and cheap metal. Billy Joe at the Tundra plant in San Antonio didnt cause this.

[Surgeon]

Indeed it does suffer from what a majority of domestic vehicles suffer from: competitive pricing.

When building a vehicle you have to keep the cost of build down to keep a profit margin. You can break this up into three major groups : A.design, B.assembly and C.materials. The design work is from the country of origin and the materials are sourced from the most logistical places that the cost would be the most efficient.

When you add the variable of a set salary rate for group B, money has to come from group A or C to fill in the gaps. This is my main beef with modern domestics, from the last GM strike, the official average rate of pay for the unioned employees was 70K a year. Thats a lot of money that is inclusive to the low-skilled jobs. When you have to pay that much on labor alone to build the vehicle you have to use cheaper materials to make it globally competitive. If you lower the cost of labor then the money can go into group A or C, and vice versa. This is also the reason car companies will use the same platform to release several vehicles(ex. Escalade, Tahoe, Denali/ 350z,g35/integra,civic,del sol) it reduces cost in group A. The labor cost of doing business is also the reason most of our manufactured goods are outsourced to China and Korea(where child labor is still somewhat in practice), or call centers are being outsourced to India,Canada and Jamaica.

With that being said it goes to my point of these trucks being more(IMO) domestic than import, because they have the same handicap that any other domestic car does. So yes Billy Jo does have an indirect factor in the poor materials used when looking at the larger scale.

[texan_idiot25]

Well, the car is set to debut at the Detroit Autoshow. GM sent out it's press release and pics just before Christmas... 'tis a beast.

7S7xbxuaXrA
"All Harlan Charles, project manager for the Corvette team was able to tell us last week was the new high-powered 'Vette engine is "capable of producing at least 100 horsepower per liter. That's at least 620 horsepower, and approximately 595 lb.-ft. of torque. Charles was only willing to say "it's in the low three seconds."


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Globs of power, little weight (thanks to a liberal use of Carbon Fiber)

Press release:
CHEVROLET ENTERS THE WORLD OF SUPERCARS WITH 2009 CORVETTE ZR1

New, Supercharged LS9 V-8 is the Heart of the ZR1

DETROIT - Chevrolet officially announced the 2009 Corvette ZR1 - an American supercar that brings the technology and engineering refinement of carbon-fiber, ceramics and electronics together in a distinctive design.

"Chevrolet's goal with the new ZR1 is to show what an American supercar can deliver, at a price that trumps exotics that cost two, three or four times as much - and does so with exceptional driveability," said Ed Peper, Chevrolet general manager.

The ZR1's basic stats:

* All-new LS9 supercharged 6.2L V-8 targeted at producing at least 100 horsepower per liter, or 620 horsepower (462 kW), and approximately 595 lb.-ft. of torque (823 Nm)
* Six-speed, close-ratio, race-hardened manual transmission
* New, high-capacity dual-disc clutch
* Higher-capacity and specific-diameter axle half-shafts; enhanced torque tube
* Specific suspension tuning provides more than 1g cornering grip
* Twenty-spoke 19-inch front and 20-inch rear wheels
* Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires - P285/30ZR19 in front and P335/25ZR20 in the rear - developed specifically for the ZR1
* Standard carbon-ceramic, drilled disc brake rotors - 15.5-inch-diameter (394-mm) in the front and 15-inch-diameter (380-mm) in the rear
* Larger brake calipers with substantially increased pad area
* Standard Magnetic Selective Ride Control with track-level suspension
* Wider, carbon-fiber front fenders with ZR1-specific dual vents
* Carbon-fiber hood with a raised, polycarbonate window - offering a view of the intercooler below it
* Carbon-fiber roof panel, roof bow, front fascia splitter and rocker moldings with clear-coated, exposed carbon-fiber weave
* ZR1-specific full-width rear spoiler with raised outboard sections
* Specific gauge cluster with boost gauge (also displayed on the head-up display) and 220-mph (370 km/h) speedometer readout
* Only two options: chrome wheels and a "luxury" package
* Curb weight of approximately 3,350 pounds (1,519 kg)

The specialized components of the new ZR1 work harmoniously to deliver the most powerful and fastest automobile ever produced by General Motors. Performance estimates will be announced closer to vehicle's summer 2008 launch.

"Preliminary testing shows the ZR1 builds on the highly respected Corvette Z06 in every performance category, from acceleration and braking, to cornering grip and top speed," said Peper. "It all boils down to the power-to-weight ratio and the ZR1's is exceptional - better than the Porsche 911 GT2, the Ferrari 599 and even the Lamborghini LP640. In fact, the ZR1 is expected to be the first production Corvette to achieve a top speed of at least 200 mph."

Supercharged LS9 engine

The new LS9 6.2L small-block engine is the power plant the supports the ZR1's performance capability. The enabler of the LS9's performance and refinement is a large, positive-displacement Roots-type supercharger with a new, four-lobe rotor design. It is augmented with an integrated charge cooling system that reduces inlet air temperature for maximum performance.

A sixth-generation supercharger developed by Eaton helps the LS9 make big power and torque at lower rpm and carries it in a wide arc to 6,600 rpm, as it pushes enough air to help the engine maintain power through the upper levels of the rpm band - the area where supercharged performance tends to diminish. Heavy-duty and lightweight reciprocating components enable the engine's confident high-rpm performance.

The LS9 is hand-assembled at GM's Performance Build Center, in Wixom, Mich., and incorporates specialty processes typically seen in racing engines to produce a highly refined and precise product. For example, cast iron cylinder liners are inserted in the aluminum block and are finish-bored and honed with a deck plate installed. The deck plate simulates the pressure and minute dimensional variances applied to the block when the cylinder heads are installed, ensuring a higher degree of accuracy that promotes maximum cylinder head sealing, piston ring fit and overall engine performance.

Transmission and axle

The LS9 engine is backed by a new, stronger six-speed manual transmission and a twin-disc clutch that provide exceptional clamping power, while maintaining an easy clutch effort. ZR1-specific gearing in the transmission provides a steep first-gear ratio that helps launch the car, and top speed is achieved in sixth gear - a change from the fifth-gear top-speed run-outs in the manual-transmission Corvette and Corvette Z06.

As the term implies, the twin-disc clutch system employs a pair of discs, which spreads out the engine's torque load over a wider area. This enables tremendous clamping power when the clutch is engaged, while also helping to dissipate heat better and extend the life of the clutch.

The twin-disc clutch system also contributes to the ZR1's exceptional driving quality, with smooth and easy shifting. The twin-disc system's design enables a 25-percent reduction in inertia, thanks to smaller, 260-mm plates, corresponding to a pedal effort that is similar to the Corvette Z06's 290-mm single-disc system.

The rear axle also is stronger in the ZR1 and features asymmetrical axle-shaft diameters that were developed after careful testing to provide optimal torque management. The axles are also mounted on a more horizontal plane that correlates with the wider width of the rear wheels and tires.

Ride and handling

The ZR1 is built on the same aluminum-intensive chassis as the Corvette Z06 and features similar independent SLA front and rear suspensions, with aluminum upper and lower control arms. Where the ZR1 differs is the suspension tuning, which was optimized for the car's steamroller-wide front and rear tires.

Magnetic Selective Ride Control is standard and tuned specifically for the ZR1. The system's ability to deliver a compliant ride with nearly instantaneous damping adjustments enabled engineers to develop a surprisingly supple ride quality in a supercar that still delivers cornering grip of more than 1g.

From a high-performance perspective, Magnetic Selective Ride Control helps the rear axle remain planted during launch for smooth, hop-free acceleration. It also helps suppress axle movement when cornering on broken or uneven pavement.

Brakes, wheels and tires

Commensurate with the ZR1's engine output is the braking system, which is headlined by carbon-ceramic brake rotors. Found on only a few exotics and more expensive supercars, carbon-ceramic brake rotors are made of a carbon-fiber-reinforced ceramic silicon carbide material . Their advantage comes in low mass and resistance to wear and heat. In fact, the rotors should never show any corrosion or require replacement for the life of the vehicle, when used in normal driving.

The vented and cross-drilled rotors on the ZR1 measure 15.5 inches (394 mm) in diameter in the front and 15 inches (380 mm) in diameter in the rear - making them among the largest carbon-ceramic rotors available on any production vehicle.

Clamping down on the high-tech rotors are six-piston front calipers and four-piston rear calipers, each painted a ZR1-exclusive blue. The front pads are equivalent in size to the largest on any production car with a single-pad design - double that of the Corvette Z06's 70-sq.-cm. front pads.

The brakes are visible through the ZR1's exclusive wheels: 20-spoke alloy rims that measure 19 inches in diameter in the front and 20 inches in the rear. They come standard with a bright, Sterling Silver paint finish and chrome versions are optional. The wheels are wrapped in Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tires developed specifically for the ZR1, measuring P285/30ZR19 in front and P335/25ZR20 in the rear.

Exclusive exterior

The ZR1 is instantly recognizable, with perhaps the most identifiable feature a raised, all-carbon-fiber hood that incorporates a clear, polycarbonate window. The window provides a view of the top of the engine's intercooler, with the legend "LS9 SUPERCHARGED" embossed on the left and right sides, and an engine cover with the Corvette crossed flags logo debossed at the front.

The underside of the hood has an exposed carbon-fiber-weave. Exposed carbon-fiber is used on the roof, roof bow, rocker molding and front splitter. These exterior components are protected by a specially developed glossy, UV-resistant clear coat that resists yellowing and wear.

Widened, carbon-fiber front fenders with specific, dual lower vents, and a full-width, body-color rear spoiler incorporating the center high-mounted stop lamp, are also unique to the ZR1. All of the exterior features of the car were developed to enhance high-speed stability and driver control.

Interior details
The ZR1's interior builds on the brand's dual-cockpit heritage, with high-quality materials, craftsmanship and functionality that support the premium-quality experience promised by the car's performance. The ZR1's cabin differs from the Corvette and Corvette Z06 with the following:

* ZR1-logo sill plates
* ZR1-logo headrest embroidery
* Specific gauge cluster with "ZR1" logo on the tachometer and a 220-mph (370 km/h) readout on the speedometer
* Boost gauge added to the instrument cluster and Head-Up Display

The "base" ZR1 (RPO 1LZ) comes with accoutrements based on the Z06, including lightweight seats and lightweight content. The uplevel interior package includes unique, power-adjustable and leather-trimmed sport seats (embroidered with the ZR1 logo); custom, leather-wrapped interior available in four colors; navigation system, Bluetooth connectivity and more.

By the numbers

In addition to the exterior cues and powertrain, ZR1 models will be distinguished from other Corvette models by their VIN. Each will carry a unique, identifying VIN digit, as well as a sequential build number. This makes it easy to determine the build number of a specific car - information treasured by enthusiasts and collectors. For example, a ZR1 with a VIN ending in "0150" would indicate it is the 150 th ZR1 built for the model year.



:p
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http://jalopnik.com/cars/detroit-auto-show/2009-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-revealed-officially-334923.php

[civic_guy]

Its a beautiful car...but that see through hood just ruins it for me. :(

[Sweed]

It looks awfully high off the ground in the videos. Not sexy.